I keep posting threads about 1 question that I find an answer to in about a day, so I am posting a thread for all of my questions. right now I want to know about stocking densities. (in freshwater it is 1" of fully grown fish per gallon). I have a 75 gallon tank that i was planning on turning into a reef so i would aprecciate some info about stocking densities. I also wanted to know if inverts counted towards a stocking density level. thanks!
I have a lot of questions
- Thread starter conner
- Start date
Inverts don't count unless you have an uncanny number or some very large fleshy [and therefore dangerous] ones. [They die and pollute].
In a 75 you might have, for example, a yellow tang [grows to 8"], a pygmy angel [grows to 2-3"], and a lawnmower blenny [grows to 5" but skinny], a couple of firefish [3" but VERY skinny].
Or a larger number of fish that don't get that big. They WILL grow to max size: don't trust otherwise. Certain fish [angels and tangs] should go only in a mature tank: the disease risk is too high in a new one. Quarantining is a very good idea: marine fish are really prone to fatal ich in a new tank. Blennies and gobies are relatively peaceful, ich-resistent and small. Tangs and angels [combative] have a super-high oxygen requirement and must not be crowded.
Go to Foster/Smith's Live Aquaria site, to Marine fish, and look at the compatibility chart. They'll give you a good idea how big certain fish grow, what's available, and what eats each other.
In a 75 you might have, for example, a yellow tang [grows to 8"], a pygmy angel [grows to 2-3"], and a lawnmower blenny [grows to 5" but skinny], a couple of firefish [3" but VERY skinny].
Or a larger number of fish that don't get that big. They WILL grow to max size: don't trust otherwise. Certain fish [angels and tangs] should go only in a mature tank: the disease risk is too high in a new one. Quarantining is a very good idea: marine fish are really prone to fatal ich in a new tank. Blennies and gobies are relatively peaceful, ich-resistent and small. Tangs and angels [combative] have a super-high oxygen requirement and must not be crowded.
Go to Foster/Smith's Live Aquaria site, to Marine fish, and look at the compatibility chart. They'll give you a good idea how big certain fish grow, what's available, and what eats each other.
thank you. actually I have a list of fish i want for my tank.i am going to have a reef tank hopefully. right now i have a fiji foxface. (he got ich or something but it disappeared). my list contains (so far, not many inverts yet)
1.a flame angel
2.bicolor blenny
3.pacific sailfin tang
4.firefish
5.carpenter's flasher wrasse, possum wrasse or candy hogfish
6.lawnmower goby
7.yellow tang (if i don't get a sailfin)
(striped fangblenny and flounder, probably not but one can dream)
8.Rainford's goby (my favorite)
9. pearly jawfish
10.lyretail or dispar anthias
11.maroon or black clownfish
12. spotted, falco, or longnose hawkfish (hopefully, i'm not sure they're reef safe though).
13. yellow longnosed butterflyfish
14.schooling bannerfish
15. blue legged hermit crab
16. xmas tree worm rock
17. some kind of conch
18. sally lightfoot crab
19. coral banded shrimp
and that is my very long list. do not worry, i am well aware that 1/2 or less of the things on my list might be mine. also, things change depending on the stock in my tank and at robs store. ok, well yeah, that's it.
1.a flame angel
2.bicolor blenny
3.pacific sailfin tang
4.firefish
5.carpenter's flasher wrasse, possum wrasse or candy hogfish
6.lawnmower goby
7.yellow tang (if i don't get a sailfin)
(striped fangblenny and flounder, probably not but one can dream)
8.Rainford's goby (my favorite)
9. pearly jawfish
10.lyretail or dispar anthias
11.maroon or black clownfish
12. spotted, falco, or longnose hawkfish (hopefully, i'm not sure they're reef safe though).
13. yellow longnosed butterflyfish
14.schooling bannerfish
15. blue legged hermit crab
16. xmas tree worm rock
17. some kind of conch
18. sally lightfoot crab
19. coral banded shrimp
and that is my very long list. do not worry, i am well aware that 1/2 or less of the things on my list might be mine. also, things change depending on the stock in my tank and at robs store. ok, well yeah, that's it.
Mrs_Witchdoctor
New member
if I may put my two cents in! 
In a reef (well all tanks really) what you want to consider is the amount of waste being produced by everything in your tank vs. the amount of things (natural or mechanical) that can consume that waste in a decent timeframe. I think a skinny fish vs the same length plump fish is not going to really make a difference. Others may disagree.
Your list of hopefuls looks pretty good. If I may offer some of our experiences with our reefs. We have two dwarf angels, a coral beauty and a flame, both leave our corals alone but that is not the rule rather a hit or miss. I will say that if they are well fed they should be fine though. Butterfly fish however we have not had such good luck with they can be temperamental and finicky when it comes to their diet. They can also be sensitive to the water parameters. Firefish can be finicky too, not always. We've had great success with tangs but all were added after the tank was well established. You'll get there. Clownfish are great in a reef as are most blennies and most gobies of course your clean up crew too. I don't know much about some of the others but wanted to let you know that you're doing great and your choices look pretty well thought out. Christmas tree worms are on my list of things to add too they are amazing.
You may also want to consider how much of each, natural and mechanical filtration you'd like to use. Most of all I would recommend watching how they get along with each other as you add, watch your waste consumption to make sure it's being kept up, and have fun doing it!~J
In a reef (well all tanks really) what you want to consider is the amount of waste being produced by everything in your tank vs. the amount of things (natural or mechanical) that can consume that waste in a decent timeframe. I think a skinny fish vs the same length plump fish is not going to really make a difference. Others may disagree. Your list of hopefuls looks pretty good. If I may offer some of our experiences with our reefs. We have two dwarf angels, a coral beauty and a flame, both leave our corals alone but that is not the rule rather a hit or miss. I will say that if they are well fed they should be fine though. Butterfly fish however we have not had such good luck with they can be temperamental and finicky when it comes to their diet. They can also be sensitive to the water parameters. Firefish can be finicky too, not always. We've had great success with tangs but all were added after the tank was well established. You'll get there.
Clownfish are great in a reef as are most blennies and most gobies of course your clean up crew too. I don't know much about some of the others but wanted to let you know that you're doing great and your choices look pretty well thought out. Christmas tree worms are on my list of things to add too they are amazing. You may also want to consider how much of each, natural and mechanical filtration you'd like to use. Most of all I would recommend watching how they get along with each other as you add, watch your waste consumption to make sure it's being kept up, and have fun doing it!~J
also, can a spotted hawkfish be kept in a reef tank? i have heard different things, and i really like them. i have heard that many species are called spotted hawk, so i will describe it. pretty much it looks like a falco with brown instead of red, all of the brown in the shape of circles. i saw one at southwest reef and i really liked it, but rob said it wasn't reef safe. also, i have a magazine that says they are reef safe. can someone clarify?
Conner,
You have some list there, first let me start by saying we all have list as big if not biggger, but the size of our tanks limits the amount of fish and or other criters we can have. For the size tank you have, with out a realy kicking filtratinon system or an addintional 200 gallons of water you would not be able to house that many fish. In a salt water system fish by far putt the bigest strain on the tank and over population can cause all kinds of problems my advise would be select the top 6-8 fish on your list and reseach for compadibility, max growth, and diet. Some of those fish on your list can and will grow more then 4 inches so take this into consideration. And some of those fish will or may eat your christmas tree worms. So to make a long story short make sure you research any thing you want to have before you buy and in some cases you will need to make a sacrifice and not have one thing so you can have another. Take care and happy reefing.
Jason
You have some list there, first let me start by saying we all have list as big if not biggger, but the size of our tanks limits the amount of fish and or other criters we can have. For the size tank you have, with out a realy kicking filtratinon system or an addintional 200 gallons of water you would not be able to house that many fish. In a salt water system fish by far putt the bigest strain on the tank and over population can cause all kinds of problems my advise would be select the top 6-8 fish on your list and reseach for compadibility, max growth, and diet. Some of those fish on your list can and will grow more then 4 inches so take this into consideration. And some of those fish will or may eat your christmas tree worms. So to make a long story short make sure you research any thing you want to have before you buy and in some cases you will need to make a sacrifice and not have one thing so you can have another. Take care and happy reefing.
Jason
Re: I have a lot of questions
If you want a "general rule of thumb" something like what you are used to, use 1" per 4 gallons of water in a salt tank. So that would be approximately 18" or 19" of adult fish size.
If you add one fish to the tank every couple of weeks you'll be able to test your water and know when you've hit your limit. You'll also be able to judge the tank and make sure there isn't stress being caused by too many fish in the tank.
My longnose hawkfish ate my 2 firefish. You need to watch what fish you put in with them. He ultimately jumped out of the tank to the delight of my dog who "found" a new toy.
They are known jumpers. They are very cool fish however.
BTW, have you looked at any of the chromis? You can get sometimes find blue/green, purple and bicolor chromis at your lfs. They are "schooling" fish and are pretty cool to watch in the tank. 4 to 6 of these would look good in your tank.
If you want a "general rule of thumb" something like what you are used to, use 1" per 4 gallons of water in a salt tank. So that would be approximately 18" or 19" of adult fish size.
If you add one fish to the tank every couple of weeks you'll be able to test your water and know when you've hit your limit. You'll also be able to judge the tank and make sure there isn't stress being caused by too many fish in the tank.
My longnose hawkfish ate my 2 firefish. You need to watch what fish you put in with them. He ultimately jumped out of the tank to the delight of my dog who "found" a new toy.
They are known jumpers. They are very cool fish however.BTW, have you looked at any of the chromis? You can get sometimes find blue/green, purple and bicolor chromis at your lfs. They are "schooling" fish and are pretty cool to watch in the tank. 4 to 6 of these would look good in your tank.
whatever works, right?
I've had great fun picking one thing and designing a tank around it. For me, it was the Christmas tree worms =). Everything from filtration to temp. is designed to keep THEM happy. Then, I started looking at what else would do well in that system.
The door was slammed shut on several things I wanted (some of my fav. wrasses and butterfly fish), but I found others that I hadn't even considered that fit in perfectly.
As you gain experience you'll be able to push the limits so to speak, and try things that "as a general rule" shouldn't be done. For now, play it safe and research! =) Cayars and Jen are spot on.
Something to keep in mind in the timing that you add fish in. If you add your territoral fish fish, shy fish that you add later on may have a heck of a time getting adjusted to captive life AND avioding the tank bullies.
Have you ever seen a school of the lyretail females with one of the males? WOW... I'm actually building Jay's new 125 around that idea. The rainfords gobys have been on my wish list for awhile too, I've heard they are a bit iffy with feeding, but I'm going to give it a try one of these days.
Waste comsumption? Hermit crabs? snails? Want a few bristle worms? Free to good home! Free to any home? The very bacteria in your rock and sand is gong to help you out once those are established. Oh.. did I mention bristleworms? Free bristleworms?
Regards
I've had great fun picking one thing and designing a tank around it. For me, it was the Christmas tree worms =). Everything from filtration to temp. is designed to keep THEM happy. Then, I started looking at what else would do well in that system.
The door was slammed shut on several things I wanted (some of my fav. wrasses and butterfly fish), but I found others that I hadn't even considered that fit in perfectly.
As you gain experience you'll be able to push the limits so to speak, and try things that "as a general rule" shouldn't be done. For now, play it safe and research! =) Cayars and Jen are spot on.
Something to keep in mind in the timing that you add fish in. If you add your territoral fish fish, shy fish that you add later on may have a heck of a time getting adjusted to captive life AND avioding the tank bullies.
Have you ever seen a school of the lyretail females with one of the males? WOW... I'm actually building Jay's new 125 around that idea. The rainfords gobys have been on my wish list for awhile too, I've heard they are a bit iffy with feeding, but I'm going to give it a try one of these days.
Waste comsumption? Hermit crabs? snails? Want a few bristle worms? Free to good home! Free to any home? The very bacteria in your rock and sand is gong to help you out once those are established. Oh.. did I mention bristleworms? Free bristleworms?
Regards
Free bristleworms? How about a trade for some really nice velonia?
Connor, you've got some really good advice. I'd like to add just a bit if I may. The polution generated by your livestock choices is only half of the reason why stocking levels in SW aquariums is lower than it is in FW tanks. The other reason is that these fish require much more "space" than their FW counterparts do. Remember, they're used to swimming around in the ocean.
Overstocking a tank will stress your fish out. Stress will lead to disease and agression.
You've done a great job of putting your wish list together. Like mentioned earlier, research each of the fish on your list. You'll learn which fish won't fit into your plan and pretty soon you'll have your list narrowed down to what your tank can support.
Connor, you've got some really good advice. I'd like to add just a bit if I may. The polution generated by your livestock choices is only half of the reason why stocking levels in SW aquariums is lower than it is in FW tanks. The other reason is that these fish require much more "space" than their FW counterparts do. Remember, they're used to swimming around in the ocean.
Overstocking a tank will stress your fish out. Stress will lead to disease and agression.
You've done a great job of putting your wish list together. Like mentioned earlier, research each of the fish on your list. You'll learn which fish won't fit into your plan and pretty soon you'll have your list narrowed down to what your tank can support.
velonia? If that's whats on the table here the least I could offer is a nice aiptasia.
I wouldn't expect someone to take the offer seriously - I thought that came across - my bad, but even so, I wouldn't offer someone a fireworm or any of the coral eating species. The ones I have go after detritus, decaying matter, fish food that hits the sand, etc... With the way I overfeed, my tank would be a mess without some some serious bristleworm action! Go Worms!
I wouldn't expect someone to take the offer seriously - I thought that came across - my bad, but even so, I wouldn't offer someone a fireworm or any of the coral eating species. The ones I have go after detritus, decaying matter, fish food that hits the sand, etc... With the way I overfeed, my tank would be a mess without some some serious bristleworm action! Go Worms!
ok, I have a question about feeding my fiji. Rob told me to get enough food out, crunch it up, and hydrate it, then when he eats it all give him a little bit more. well my fiji only eats half of it; you give him more he eats half of that. so, can i get something that would eat the leftovers? (hopefully something from my list), or can someone tell me how else to feed him?
Conner,
Feeding regiments is one of the big mysteries of the salt water world, every one has their own way of feeding things. Like in my tank for example we feed the fish a good pinch of food 2 or more times a day, dose phyto, cyclops, and feed the corals and annomies idealy every other day (I do not recomend using my feeding regiment to any one ...but its what works for me).
So long as the fish is happy, growing, and not getting skinny your doing just fine. my advise is if it is only eating half give it that much to start with then if it still looks hungry give it a little more. As far as a "clean up crew" goes Blue leg hermits, turbo snails (they eat algea) and pepermint shrimp are among my favorites, but there are a lot of small inverts that are great for eating left over food, just have a look around a LFS and ask for things that would be good for a clean up crew. Happy reefing
Jason
Feeding regiments is one of the big mysteries of the salt water world, every one has their own way of feeding things. Like in my tank for example we feed the fish a good pinch of food 2 or more times a day, dose phyto, cyclops, and feed the corals and annomies idealy every other day (I do not recomend using my feeding regiment to any one ...but its what works for me).
So long as the fish is happy, growing, and not getting skinny your doing just fine. my advise is if it is only eating half give it that much to start with then if it still looks hungry give it a little more. As far as a "clean up crew" goes Blue leg hermits, turbo snails (they eat algea) and pepermint shrimp are among my favorites, but there are a lot of small inverts that are great for eating left over food, just have a look around a LFS and ask for things that would be good for a clean up crew. Happy reefing
Jason
ok, thanks. well, I think I will get something that'll at least do a bit of cleaning in my tank. also, the floor of my tank is brown from so much microalgae, also algae is starting to crawl up the sides. I can get my next fish the 29th, tomorrow, but I was wondering: I know turbo snails and lawnmower blennies eat algae, (i know i still have to feed the blenny other stuff), but what else will eat algae? I have to get something cheap, remember, but what would work? particularly, would a pearly jawfish, bicolor blenny, or peppermint shrimp eat it. (those are the top of my list for this week).
israelnajar
Active member
Free bristle worms and velonia! Wow! I will take both, where do I sign up?
Conner,
the perpermint shrimp are scavengers not algea eaters, the bi color blenny does however eat algea, if there is not a lot of green algie on the glass you will need to suplment its diet with store bought algea wafers or seaweed, I have also found that formula two pelets work well too. Now the algea you have described sounds like cyano bacteria...is it like a brown slime? If it is a brown slime, not to worry it is typical for new tanks and /or tanks that are haveing the bio load upped to get this, it can also be a sign of over feeding. What it indicates is that there is a lot of excess phosfates in the water, thats the bad news. the good news is that though the cyano is problematic and cause big problems if left unchecked it will actual bind thoses excess phosfates buring photo cycles and thus do you a favor by removing them from the water. But if will release those phosfates back into the water at night. The cure for this is easy and cheap...no criter needed, a little trick a friend tought me is to wait untill about half an hour befor lights out and use a piece of airline tubing to syphon out the cyano thus removing the bacteria and the phosfates it has bound, it will also help to do some water changes of at least 10% of the tanks volume a couple times a week untill it it under control. by the way I noticed you got your tank set up 2 weeks ago....Im not sure if you are aware but new salt water tanks take about 3-4 weeks to cycle, meaning that the new live rock you added on the 17th of November has not gone through what is called the die-back phase. Basicaly when live rock is shipped most of the living things on/in it die off this will relase all kinds of bad things into your water such as amonia, and phosfates. the good news is that after a few weeks thos good and interesting live things on/in the rock will begin to repopulate and the live rock will begin to benifit your tank rather then cause problems. For now If it were me i would wait about 2 weeks before adding any thing else to your tank, let it stabilize and syphon out the cyano and do a few water changes. The bonus is that if you wait the two weeks you will not only have a nicer looking tank (no brown cyano) you will have been able to save that $20/week to buy more criters at the end of that two week period. As always this is just me talking so take this with a grain of seasalt. Happy Reefing
Jason
the perpermint shrimp are scavengers not algea eaters, the bi color blenny does however eat algea, if there is not a lot of green algie on the glass you will need to suplment its diet with store bought algea wafers or seaweed, I have also found that formula two pelets work well too. Now the algea you have described sounds like cyano bacteria...is it like a brown slime? If it is a brown slime, not to worry it is typical for new tanks and /or tanks that are haveing the bio load upped to get this, it can also be a sign of over feeding. What it indicates is that there is a lot of excess phosfates in the water, thats the bad news. the good news is that though the cyano is problematic and cause big problems if left unchecked it will actual bind thoses excess phosfates buring photo cycles and thus do you a favor by removing them from the water. But if will release those phosfates back into the water at night. The cure for this is easy and cheap...no criter needed, a little trick a friend tought me is to wait untill about half an hour befor lights out and use a piece of airline tubing to syphon out the cyano thus removing the bacteria and the phosfates it has bound, it will also help to do some water changes of at least 10% of the tanks volume a couple times a week untill it it under control. by the way I noticed you got your tank set up 2 weeks ago....Im not sure if you are aware but new salt water tanks take about 3-4 weeks to cycle, meaning that the new live rock you added on the 17th of November has not gone through what is called the die-back phase. Basicaly when live rock is shipped most of the living things on/in it die off this will relase all kinds of bad things into your water such as amonia, and phosfates. the good news is that after a few weeks thos good and interesting live things on/in the rock will begin to repopulate and the live rock will begin to benifit your tank rather then cause problems. For now If it were me i would wait about 2 weeks before adding any thing else to your tank, let it stabilize and syphon out the cyano and do a few water changes. The bonus is that if you wait the two weeks you will not only have a nicer looking tank (no brown cyano) you will have been able to save that $20/week to buy more criters at the end of that two week period. As always this is just me talking so take this with a grain of seasalt. Happy Reefing
Jason
really? in all of my freshwaters algae wasn't bad in the least bit. I will however ask Rob and/or Eric just in case: sorry I don't believe you that much I'm just really not very patient and excited and the prospect of getting no fish for a couple weeks is not a very happy thing to me. also, what would happen if i put fully cured live rock in the tank? Michael has offered to give me some of his, Eric says it is probably the best kind. man-made, so no parasites, fully cured, and covered in beneficial stuff. but would that go through the die-back phase?
