I have color!

[Lobster]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8309815#post8309815 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by musicsmaker
Are you saying that BB tanks typically have less color due to their low nutrients?

The idea of BB tanks is not sterility, they still need plenty of nutrients. I learned that lesson the hard way. Personally, I'm not impressed with the colors in my BB system at all, and I'm at a total loss as to how I can correct it. The BB systems I've seen with good color can be counted on one hand unfortunately.

 

[dots]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8307830#post8307830 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by xabo
So........... using this formula I have:

2X Tunze 6100= 6350
1x Sequence Barracuda - 4' Head = 3780
Total= 10130/210 Gals. = 49X

Is this correct?

I don't know the numbers on your pumps to double check the math,.....but procedure looks right....

 

[Waxxiemann]

I was under the impression that a BB tank has less (or at least more controllable) nutrient levels and therefore the corals would show better color in those tanks.

 

[Lobster]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8310371#post8310371 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Waxxiemann
I was under the impression that a BB tank has less (or at least more controllable) nutrient levels and therefore the corals would show better color in those tanks.

BB tanks are extremely controllable. Ive never had an easier tank to control in terms of N and P. Color is a total mystery to me though compared to my previous tanks (DSBs). I'm getting "tan" coral. Not brown, nor bleached -- just really washed out. I'm working on it though!

The problem is there is a lot of misinformation about BB methodology, and the real experts seem hard to find. Part of the problem is old stereotypes... relics of the BB vs DSB wars that are still around (such as BB should be sterile). Then more confusion comes from people that run a "sandless" tank but then have remote DSBs or refugiums or other things that dont really fit the BB concept. Its just a lot to sort through.

My favorite BB tank is Clkwrk's, and I follow his thread. Unfortunately I have yet to identify what he does right that I do wrong.

 

[Pyrrhus]

For starters you are a few thousand GPH shy on flow to be at the kind of turnover that Clkwrk has.

 

[rutz81]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8310001#post8310001 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by onehundred20
my sump is a 55 gallon, about 1/3 is my fuge...its height is about 15 inches, if I were to put a remote dsb in there how deep should i make it and would that be sufficient for a 120?

and i would be using it to keep my nitrates down etc.

are you guys using the dsb to keep down the nutrients or add them lol?

Mine is setup the same way with 1/3 of my sump being my Remote DSB, I have 40 lbs. of sand in there, it comes to about 4-5". Just remember if you are using new sand, it'll take a good 3 months for the sand to activate and become "live". I'd also reccomend a filter sock of some sort to remove the large particle matter before it settles into the sand.

 

[rutz81]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8310485#post8310485 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lobster
The problem is there is a lot of misinformation about BB methodology, and the real experts seem hard to find. Part of the problem is old stereotypes... relics of the BB vs DSB wars that are still around (such as BB should be sterile). Then more confusion comes from people that run a "sandless" tank but then have remote DSBs or refugiums or other things that dont really fit the BB concept. Its just a lot to sort through.

I wouldn't label it "misinformation". I think it is possible "fixes" to problems,(like lowering nitrates for example). Rather than going out and buying a huge beckett style skimmer which would enable you to remove waste the "correct" way by extreme wet skimming; according to BB methodology, there may be another way to accomplish this, like a remote DSB that is kept clean and changed out before it can do the damage of an "old" sand bed by releasing phosphates and such. It comes back to the old saying, "There is more than one way to skin a cat".
I am not saying that everyone with color problem should run out and dump sand in their sump. All I can say is that this MAY be the reason that I have good color in my tank, along with other things I follow.

 

[CeeGee]

all I know is that fishdoc11 is running BB and I have seen the tank in person and he has exceptional color. His pix don't do it justice.

 

[Lobster]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8310989#post8310989 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rutz81
I wouldn't label it "misinformation". I think it is possible "fixes" to problems,(like lowering nitrates for example). Rather than going out and buying a huge beckett style skimmer which would enable you to remove waste the "correct" way by extreme wet skimming; according to BB methodology, there may be another way to accomplish this, like a remote DSB that is kept clean and changed out before it can do the damage of an "old" sand bed by releasing phosphates and such. It comes back to the old saying, "There is more than one way to skin a cat".
I am not saying that everyone with color problem should run out and dump sand in their sump. All I can say is that this MAY be the reason that I have good color in my tank, along with other things I follow.

Oh I didnt mean to belittle your methods at all. I was just saying that as far as I can tell, I'm doing BB as I understand it should be done (I did buy the big skimmer), and my color stinks. I dont have a nitrate problem.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8310714#post8310714 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pyrrhus
For starters you are a few thousand GPH shy on flow to be at the kind of turnover that Clkwrk has.

2000GPH in a 30 gallon display seems like decent flow, but if enough people honestly believe it will help, I will buy a Tunze 6100 and put it in there today! I'll try anything at this point because I want to decide if I like BB before I setup my 300G.

 

[rutz81]

Lobster: Reading your tanks specs, you did buy an awesome skimmer, I also have a Deltec, but, I know on mine there is a limit on how wet we can skim. Where as a beckett skimmer can skim almost a green tea and thats what we're looking for.
In terms of your color, I don't think the sand bed is only good for removing nitrates, it also adds an "x" factor that seems to bring out those deeper colors.

 

[Frankysreef]

I have great colors and a ssb, but I run a very productive refugium that has live mysis, pods, worms etc.... It is also an sps frag tank...

The best colors I have seen come from 20k mixed with 6500k, but here is my advice to you...

1. Each tank is different
2. What works for someone else may not work for you...
3. Find the reefers secrets that you want to copy...

Go over to thier house, see what they are doing right...

Make sure your chemistry is in balance... run a calcium reactor, or kalk reactor for stability..

Add an auto top offf system for stability... ( this keeps your salinity extremely stable )VERY IMPORTANT if you have a lot of evap

Make sure you have at least 40-50x turnover...

Feed your tank....

Strain your frozen foods ( mysis ) before adding to tank

Have some mechanical export ( filter socks are good )

Run carbon 24/7

Have good skimmers ( I just recently put both my skimmers on a timer to only skim at night )heat issues, and the fact that my mechanical export works pretty good, so my skimmers dont pull that much....

Also the more corals you have the more they will filter the water also.....

Of course these points are all my opinion... I set up my reef tank long before I found reef central...

F

 

[javajaws]

The biological and mechanical filtering properties of a modern BB tank absolutely REQUIRE that you constantly provide some sort of nutrient import....and much more than you may think. They are THAT efficient at removing stuff. Otherwise, your tank will become a sterile tank of saltwater. I know this because I ran my tank for several months with only a couple of fish and once or twice a week feedings. Once my rock was totally and completely cured (3-4 months beyond the cooking phase), my SPS frags started to fade away. I would never get any algae growth on my glass...just a bacterial film.

I've now got a school of 6 large anthias, a puple tang, and a few other small fish in my 110g tank and feed 2 times a day (4 cubes of mysis daily + cyclopeeze, GP, oyster eggs, pellets, etc.). Still no measurable nitrate or phosphate, but the colors in my SPS have never looked better and not a single one is brown. I've got great polyp extension in all SPS unlike before. A couple SPS which were faded to white have come back and now have nice blue tips. I've also got really nice growth now. I clean the glass every 3-4 days of very minor algae accumulation (just small specks of the stuff really).

If you suffer from faded SPS in your BB tank, then I'd say add some fish and increase your feedings. Keep doing so until you have some measurable nitrate/phosphate then back off just a little.

If you have "brown" SPS then you probably have sufficient or too many nutrients and may possibly have other issues as well.

 

[Lobster]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8312527#post8312527 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Frankysreef
here is my advice to you...

Thanks, all great info. I've got all that covered except I do not strain frozen foods like mysis.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8316849#post8316849 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by javajaws
If you suffer from faded SPS in your BB tank, then I'd say add some fish and increase your feedings. Keep doing so until you have some measurable nitrate/phosphate then back off just a little.

If you have "brown" SPS then you probably have sufficient or too many nutrients and may possibly have other issues as well.

Nice tank, those anthias are fantastic! Have any recent full-tank shots for that thread of yours?

I've got a small yellow tang, a chalk bass, two clowns, and a blue chromis in there, so I think I'm good on fish but perhaps not! I've never had measurable phosphate in my tank, and only after I added the fish did I see nitrogen sources register and then never again. I think I am feeding enough, but perhaps I will start running GFO so that I can increase the amount and feel a bit safer phosphate-wise.

Actually, pyrrhus really got me thinking about my flow. The GPH is a large number, but I'm beginning to wonder if I really have sufficient movement in there. I totally changed the flow pattern in the tank tonight, so I should get an idea over the next couple days if its an issue. I might seriously order a Tunze 6100 and lay all doubts to rest there.

Lots of good info in this thread, thanks for the ideas everybody!

 

[Pyrrhus]

Yeah, I'm kinda a freak about flow. I run 50x in my 20l for just fish and a couple of LPS.

I actually think that 2 Darts on a 140 (tank I am working on) might not be enough flow for what I want to do. Just like you said, It's a large number but the turnover isn't that great.

 

[Waxxiemann]

I run a DSB on my 90 but I want to switch to BB for various reasons and I'm learning a lot from this thread.

Good stuff.

 

[javajaws]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8317146#post8317146 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lobster
Thanks, all great info. I've got all that covered except I do not strain frozen foods like mysis.



Nice tank, those anthias are fantastic! Have any recent full-tank shots for that thread of yours?

I've got a small yellow tang, a chalk bass, two clowns, and a blue chromis in there, so I think I'm good on fish but perhaps not! I've never had measurable phosphate in my tank, and only after I added the fish did I see nitrogen sources register and then never again. I think I am feeding enough, but perhaps I will start running GFO so that I can increase the amount and feel a bit safer phosphate-wise.

Actually, pyrrhus really got me thinking about my flow. The GPH is a large number, but I'm beginning to wonder if I really have sufficient movement in there. I totally changed the flow pattern in the tank tonight, so I should get an idea over the next couple days if its an issue. I might seriously order a Tunze 6100 and lay all doubts to rest there.

Lots of good info in this thread, thanks for the ideas everybody!

You've got an APF600 on a 30g tank? I'm telling you...your water is too clean! Do you have some pictures of these SPS you're having problems with? How is their polyp extension? How long is your photoperiod? Try increasing your feedings to 3 times a day for 2 weeks and see what happens. Its alot cheaper than messing with your flow and if it doesn't work its easily reversible. Don't be afraid of minor phosphates...I've seen an SPS tank with measurable phosphates that looks way better than mine does...i know because I tested his water from the frags I got.

BTW, no full tank pics recently. But subscribe to my thread and I'll try to get some out in the next week or so.

 

[rutz81]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8318440#post8318440 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by javajaws
You've got an APF600 on a 30g tank? I'm telling you...your water is too clean! Do you have some pictures of these SPS you're having problems with? How is their polyp extension? How long is your photoperiod? Try increasing your feedings to 3 times a day for 2 weeks and see what happens. Its alot cheaper than messing with your flow and if it doesn't work its easily reversible. Don't be afraid of minor phosphates...I've seen an SPS tank with measurable phosphates that looks way better than mine does...i know because I tested his water from the frags I got.

BTW, no full tank pics recently. But subscribe to my thread and I'll try to get some out in the next week or so.

Agreed. I have an MCE600 on my 75G(100G) total volume, you are way overskimming. Defintely post some pics and I'm sure someone here will be able to help some more.

 

[Frankysreef]

Straining your food is a great way to reduce pollutants...You'd be surprised how much junk is in there.

 

[onehundred20]

would a remote dsb for my 120 lower my nitrates? i have a pretty large and deep fuge.

 

[rutz81]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=595109

check it out, it'll defintely work for a 120.