I need a bit of advice

[Benjamin.]

Hi guys, and you can see I am both new to this forum and also marine keeping.

Before I got a marine tank, I had been keeping freshwater fish for a few years and finally decided to take the plunge into marine aquatic life.

Anyway,

I recently purchased my first marine tank. The fluval m90. It came as they all do when bought new with the fluval equipment which is my reason for purchasing it. Since then I have thus realised that I probably shouldn't have gone with the fluval. The first problem being the built in sump at the back is basically designed so that the water flows through it, though only through the top which means unless you turn the middle partition upside down, you aren't going to get much in the way of water movement at the bottom. The second problem being, they designed a lovely tank and then decided to add a "quick drain" tap in the bottom of the sump for water changes. This is a pointless feature as once the water level decreases after drainimg the sump, the water drops to low to reach the inlet making these "quick" water changes a lot longer. Anyway, on to my question and a bit of confession too.

I set up the tank once I got home with RO water and red Sea salt as per instructed by the guy at my lfs and put the power head and heater on to help mix in the salt and to warm the tank over night for LR. I also added sand and left to settle overnight.

The next day, when my salinity level was showing 1.024 and my temperature was at 26*C I went off to collect the LR. Once there, I also purchased some filter floss for my sump to help keep the water clear and picked out the LR. At this point I asked inquisitivly as to when I would be looking to add coral (just out of interest). He went on to tell me that I could add some small soft corals now and we went on to select four small soft corals, a Kenya tree coral, a green brain coral, a pulsing xenia coral and another coral that I have momentarily forgotten the name of. He said they will be fine as long as I add calcium weekly and also sufficient coral food. I later discovered that this man was full of horse manure but I don't have the facility or the money to accommodate the corals else where at the moment.

I have recently started to get my first burst of green/brown algae all over the shop and I'm wondering what's the best way to prevent these corals and my tank from going belly up.

I don't as of yet own a test kit as this man also told me I wouldn't need one till later on so I can't give you any other levels other than my salinity is at a steady1.025 and my temperature is at 26*C. I would have taken the corals back but it was passed their return policy timeline and it's over an hour away. All corals so far are looking healthy so far though I have only been running for under a week so plenty of chance for change.

Please don't say negative things about my lack of knowledge on this subject as I have criticised myself enough.

thanks for reading
Ben

 

[Kearnel]

I don't think anyone is going to be negative to you but I am pretty sure it'll be suggested that despite what any lfs tells you it's best if you research each and every animal you intend to purchase before buying. Stores are in it for profit, some care but as you've found out, some don't. I guess if you can turn a profit then you can turn a blind eye as well. Any how, what sort of lighting are you using to light your aquarium, most corals require some degree of specific lighting with supplements. If at all possible I'd remove the corals to another tank if you can, one that's fully established and lit properly. I find it highly unlikely that they will survive the tank cycle. For a time the tank will be almost uninhabitable because your parameters will go haywire and off the charts in toxicity. All that beautiful algae you see is going to get soooooo much worse and on the off chance your corals did survive, they'd be suffocated by all the algae that's to come. Be patient my friend, want guidance and pure honest not for profit advice then hang out here and read till there's no more to read. Someone else will jump in I'm sure and ask you more specific questions to help guide you along better.

 

[Sk8r]

Oh, my. First thing, read the sticky on SETTING UP. I can't imagine a fish store that is going to stay in business handing out this sort of advice. When you HAVE read the section on setup and cycling, you'll understand what I mean.

That said, corals are far tougher than most people would expect. And they can survive a mild cycle better than fish can.

Above all, don't add a fish. Just keep the salinity going, don't challenge that tank with any ammonia or even fish food for the corals. There'll be some dieoff. That will feed the bacteria you want to cultivate. Get the parameters to match the ones in my sig line: not only track your nitrate and ammonia---track your salinity (with a refractometer) and your alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium levels with weekly tests---you're going right into the deep end of the pool.) I recommend Salifert tests, as easy, and unmistakeable in result. Get some supplements to keep those levels up. Kent is a good brand.

Keep that water as I have in my sig line. Let it do as it will do. I don't suppose you also set up with ro/di water? If conditioned tapwater, that's part of the algae problem, but that's minor. Try to keep the algae from overwhelming the coral and shading them, and just settle in until you can see worms and snails (you will have to buy some of the latter if they don't arrive on the rock) doing their thing and thriving. By then you will have a mildly cycled tank. Add more snails, more crabs, and one hopes the coral will have survived. Start running a Phosban reactor, (1 jar per 50 gallons, changed out once a month) until the algae goes away. That will solve the phosphate overload, which I assure you you have---no need of a test to tell you that while your tank's drowning in algae.

And I wish you luck! We'll advise you where we can.

 

[Benjamin.]

I am using the LED'S that come with the fluval m90, the 504 LEDS, 25,000K ONES. I used RO to set up and haven't added any tap water at all. I shall be buying a full test kit today to test all the levels you have advised. I don't have anywhere for the corals to go so I shall do my best to keep them healthy.

thanks again for your advice
Ben

 

[Saltliquid]

PH and KH and salinity have to remain sort of stable for starters.
Use a product to keep phosphates and silica at bay like nitra guard or one of the GFO products from day one and for the life of your hobby!! Also run some carbon always and add a little skimmer once the cycle is finished!
Mate if you are concerned about your corals just add some ammo lock for a week or two then water change it out!
Ammonia is the ultimate destabiliser in saltwater.

 

[Benjamin.]

Thank you for the advice about the ammo lock. I shall get my water tested ASAP to see what I need to start doing. I shall post the results on this thread once I get the test kit.

Also, I have noticed some small tube worms on my pulsing xenia corals rock, would they be potentially dangerous to the corals?

Thanks
Ben

 

[Saltliquid]

If you have life like tube worms in there and they are fine then your ammonia will not be at dangerous levels. Tube worms are a plus and not usually a problem. If ammonia was quite high it will adversely affect the tube worms fans/dusters.

 

[acabgd]

You should also top off your evaporated water and keep the level constant. Also with RO/DI water - if you don't have your own RO/DI filter, get one - it will pay off itself within a year.

 

[Benjamin.]

Just thought i would update you all on how my tank is going thus far.

My levels are as follows:

Salinity: 1.026
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 25
ALK/KH: 12.1
Magnesium: 1470
Calcium: 530ppm
Iodate: <0.03
Iodide: <0.01

I have just dosed on iodine after the test as clearly i haven't done it in a while. My KH has always been high, it went to 10 at one point but thats as low as it has gone. Since buying the salifert tests i haven't had a reading of ammonia or nitrite but have always had a reading of around 25 for nitrate. That doesn't seem to change after a water change. My salinity has stayed the same through out, obviously topping up on fresh or salted RO water when needed. My calcium is a bit high, i don't add anything for that so i guess my corals aren't using it due to being soft corals? As you can probably guess with my nitrate reading, I still have algae, i have a bit of red hair algae and some green slimy algae. I am getting the algae on the sand and glass though the rocks for the most part have stayed pretty clean. I am using a skimmer, the fluvial sea skimmer. I have my lights on from around half seven in the morning to around two in the afternoon.

Anyone have any advice they could give me for the algae? I don't have much in the way of bioload i wouldn't have thought as i only have a few hermits, a mandarin goby, a panama wrasse and a single clown fish.

I haven't had any corals bleach, wither or die on me so i guess i'm doing alright so far but would just like a bit of advice on how to reduce my nitrates and also level my others out too.

Regards
Ben

 

[Benjamin.]

bump

bump

bump

 

[acabgd]

You shouldn't really dose iodine, no need for it at all.
As for your levels being that high, what are you measuring your salinity with?

Small water changes (ie. 10%) will not make a dent on your nitrate levels. If you go that route in order to lower them, you need to make your water changes substantially larger, such as 50% twice in a few days.

Also, what do you mean by "topping with RO or saltwater as needed". Salt from the tank doesn't evaporate, you should really top off only with freshwater.

Everything points to a salinity measurment problem.

 

[discoreefer]

Welcome to RC, some good advice on this forum.

 

[Sk8r]

Dose ONLY alkalinity buffer, calcium, magnesium, AFTER reading the sticky above on Dirt-simple CHemistry. It's much easier than you're making it.

Imitate the parameters in my sig line: those 3 will let you do it. You need tests and supplements for those: I use Kent supplements and Salifert tests.

 

[Benjamin.]

I am using a refractometer.

All the other tests were done with my own salifert tests following the instructions completely.

I mean, if i do a water change with plain RO water and find that the salinity is a bit low, i will then top up with pre-mixed salted RO.

SK8r, I have tests for each of the results i have written above, each made by salifert.

Just curious, how would a problem with measuring salinity throw my other results out?

Cheers for the reply's thus far guys!

Rgards
Benjamin.

 

[acabgd]

I mean, if i do a water change with plain RO water and find that the salinity is a bit low, i will then top up with pre-mixed salted RO.

You shouldn't do water changes with plain RO water. You need to match your tank salinity and temperature as close as possible.
RO water is used only for top off.

You might need to do some additional reading on how to run a saltwater tank.

 

[dkeller_nc]

Woah - you've got some misconceptions going on. You do not perform a water change on a saltwater tank with RODI water, you do it with mixed artificial salt water. RODI water is an acronym for "reverse osmosis de-ionized" and simply refers to the purification method. It's essentially pure H2O and nothing else. It's the appropriate starting point for making artificial salt water, and what you use to replace water that's evaporated from the tank, but not for a water change.

To perform a water change, you fill a bucket or trash can with RODI water, then add a powerhead or other means of circulation and then the appropriate amount of an artificial seawater mix like Instant Ocean, Reef Crystals, Red Sea Coral Pro salt, etc...to give you a specific gravity reading of 1.026. You need to let this mix for at least a few hours to ensure that it's fully mixed and aerated.

Once you have your replacement water made up, you siphon what you want to replace out of your tank (most of us use the siphon as an opportunity to suck up detritus, nuisance algae, etc...), dump the used saltwater down the toilet, and replace what's been removed from the tank with the newly mixed up artificial seawater.

 

[dkeller_nc]

A couple of other notes:

To function correctly and give you an accurate reading, a refractometer must be calibrated; they aren't necessarily accurate out of the box. It also needs to be a refractometer that's scaled for artificial seawater; there are many on the market that are brine refractometers, which means they're scaled for pure sodium chloride solutions.

You can use a brine refractometer to measure the specific gravity of artificial seawater, but you have to apply a conversion factor to the scale reading to get a correct value.

If your refractometer is designed for seawater, then all you need is a refractometry calibration solution. You can purchase one from many internet dealers that specialize in reef tanks supplies, such as Bulk Reef Supply.

Finally, and unfortunately, I suspect your local fish shop has inappropriately sold you a mandarin goby. These fish are beautiful, fascinating, and also difficult to keep. Specifically, they generally will only eat tiny, live crusteaceans from the live rock in your tank. If you've a small tank (less than 100 gallons), they quickly exhaust their food supply and starve to death.

You can supplement their food source by buying live copepods (such as these), but this can get to be a very expensive proposition very quickly. Recently, one of our forum members with the user name of PaulB has discovered that some mandarins will eat live white worms with gusto. White worms are easy to culture, and are a staple of the freshwater aquarium hobby, so you might want to look up some of the threads discussing this topic.

 

[Benjamin.]

You shouldn't do water changes with plain RO water. You need to match your tank salinity and temperature as close as possible.
RO water is used only for top off.

You might need to do some additional reading on how to run a saltwater tank.

Ok, seems i have gotten confused along the way in the conversation.
I meant to put that the other way around. I know you don't take out 25% of the tank water and then just dump 20% plain RO water back in and top off with 5% salted. I don't do that. I do as written below and top of with salted RO which i have matched to my own salinity and to the temperature of the tank or as close as with both.

 

[Benjamin.]

It also needs to be a refractometer that's scaled for artificial seawater

It's the Reef Spec refratometer produced by Red Sea calibrated for sea water, so i assume its the right one? I also have been told by a different LFS that to give it a clean in RO water before and after testing my tank water. Would this work too as a calibration method or should i get a calibrating solution?

Finally, and unfortunately, I suspect your local fish shop has inappropriately sold you a mandarin goby. These fish are beautiful, fascinating, and also difficult to keep. Specifically, they generally will only eat tiny, live crusteaceans from the live rock in your tank. If you've a small tank (less than 100 gallons), they quickly exhaust their food supply and starve to death.

You can supplement their food source by buying live copepods (such as these), but this can get to be a very expensive proposition very quickly. Recently, one of our forum members with the user name of PaulB has discovered that some mandarins will eat live white worms with gusto. White worms are easy to culture, and are a staple of the freshwater aquarium hobby, so you might want to look up some of the threads discussing this topic.

I am not going to lie, it may have been an impulse buy. But, so far i have fed the mandarin on brine shrimp and have seen it eat it each time. Does this mean, that no matter how much the mandarin eats the brine shrimp, it will not survive? I have basically been target feeding it since doing a bit of research on the fish and i found that people have reported getting theirs to eat brine.

I understand that from your point of view, i am just some amateur that jumped into the deep end without arm bands, but i'm trying my best to right the wrong by asking for the right advice.

Regards

Benjamin.

 

[acabgd]

It also needs to be a refractometer that's scaled for artificial seawater

I understand that from your point of view, i am just some amateur that jumped into the deep end without arm bands, but i'm trying my best to right the wrong by asking for the right advice.

Regards

Benjamin.

You did ask for advice and kudos for that. The other poster just mentioned a fact about mandarins and there's nothing wrong with that. If yours does indeed accept other food then great!