I need a fish nutrition EXPERT!

baldwinaquaman

baldwinaquaman

New member
I recently got a chance to try out a new type of food. It is a gel based food, and a little on the expensive side. I know people who use it whose fish are vibrantly colored and look very healthy, however I do not know how the nutrional value of this food stacks up to other flake/frozen foods. i have the ingredients now and wanted to know if anyone could answer this question for me, so I can decide if it is worth buying again. The food is said to especially target red pigmentation in the fish. So if anyone can please help me!



NUTRIENTS DRY% Reconstituted%
Protein"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦..........57.1"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦......."¦.28.5
Arganine"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦..........3.37"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦......."¦"¦.1.69
Cystine"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦.........0.56"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦........."¦"¦0.28
Glycine"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦.........4.88"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦........."¦"¦2.44
Histildine"¦"¦"¦"¦......."¦"¦"¦"¦..1.30"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦........."¦"¦0.65
Isoleucine"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦......"¦.3.46"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦........."¦"¦.1.73
Leucine"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦......."¦"¦.4.30"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦........."¦"¦.2.15
Lysine"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦......."¦...4.13"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦........."¦.2.07
Methionine"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦......"¦1.54"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦.........."¦0.77
Phenylalanine"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦...."¦"¦2.38"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦..........."¦"¦1.19
Tyrosine"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦......"¦"¦1.38"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦..........."¦"¦0.69
Threonine"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦...."¦"¦..2.45"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦..........."¦"¦1.22
Tryptophan"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦...."¦"¦"¦0.57"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦..........."¦0.28
Valine"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦......"¦3.16"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦............"¦"¦1.58
Taurine"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦...."¦..0.22"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦............"¦"¦0.11

FAT"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦......"¦"¦..16.7"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦............"¦...8.3
Omega 3 fatty acids"¦"¦"¦..3.8"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦............."¦"¦.1.9
Omega 6 fatty acids.."¦"¦..0.4"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦............."¦"¦.0.2

FIBER"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦......."¦"¦.1.0"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦............"¦..0.5
Neutral Detergent Fiber.."¦3.3"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦............."¦.1.7
Acid detergent fiber"¦"¦"¦..0.7"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦..............0.4
Digestible Energy kcal/kg"¦4500"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦..............2250

MINERALS
Ash"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦......14.3"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦............."¦"¦..7.1
Calcium"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦.....3.70"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦............."¦..1.85
Phosphorus"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦."¦.2.29"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦............."¦..1.14
Phosphorous(non-phytate1.85"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦.............."¦.0.93
Potassium"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦."¦"¦0.61"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦.............."¦.0.30
Magnesium"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦."¦"¦.0.19"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦.............."¦.0.09
Sodium"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦.."¦0.65"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦..............."¦0.32
Chlorine"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦."¦..0.75"¦"¦"¦"¦..............."¦"¦"¦0.37
Sulfur"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦.."¦"¦..0.73"¦"¦"¦"¦..............."¦"¦"¦0.37
Iron ppm"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦..680"¦"¦"¦"¦................"¦"¦"¦340
Zinc ppm"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦.."¦..260"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦...............130
Manganese ppm"¦"¦"¦."¦"¦110"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦....................55
Copper ppm"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦.....14"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦................"¦"¦7.0
Iodine ppm"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦.."¦2.2"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦..............."¦..1.1
Cobalt ppm"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦."¦"¦2.8"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦................"¦..1.4
Selenium ppm"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦1.37"¦"¦"¦"¦................."¦"¦0.68

VITAMINS
Thiamin ppm"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦..37"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦................"¦..19
Riboflavin ppm"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦..31"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦................"¦..16
Niacin ppm"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦340"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦................"¦170
Pantothenic acid ppm"¦...100"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦..................52
Choline ppm"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦.2750"¦"¦"¦"¦..............."¦.1375
Folic acid ppm"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦...6.3"¦"¦"¦"¦.............."¦...3.2
Pyridoxine ppm"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦26"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦................13
Biotin ppm"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦1.1"¦"¦"¦"¦.............."¦..0.6
Vitamin B12 mcg/kg"¦"¦"¦"¦.180"¦"¦"¦"¦.............."¦.89
Absorbic acid ppm"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦.1,500"¦"¦"¦............"¦..750
Vitamin A IU/kg"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦14500"¦"¦"¦.............."¦7250
Vitamin D3 (added) IU/kg"¦3700"¦"¦"¦"¦...............1850
Vitamin E IU/kg"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦160"¦"¦"¦"¦.............."¦80
Vitamin K (as menadione) ppm5.3"¦"¦"¦........."¦"¦.2.6
 
Honestly I am not sure a complete nutritional requirement breakdown is really available for fish. If there are, I highly doubt a simple hobbyist is really going to be able to interpret this. Perhaps tell you if it is good or not. The problem is that this isn't an actual ingredient list. This is simply a nutrient/vitamin/mineral list. This can be valuable, but without really knowing the sources of the nutrients it an be hard to make anything of it nutritionally. The main reason for this is the fact that there are carnivorous, herbivorous, and omnivorous fish out there. Let's consider the protein value in the feed. If that value is all from a plant source, a carnivorous fish, for example, is going to be able to utilize very little, if any, of that nutrient.
 
I'm not sure your right about hat. protein is protein, I eman if I get protein from peanut butter or steak, it's still protein.......I don't know of any fish food that breaks down protein for each eating habits of fish. I am looking for a general answer for omnivorous fish. I know its not the ingredient list, but it can be compared to flake/frozen foods on a nutrient/vitamin/mineral which was the reason for the post. Also, surely there are people on here who are not your ordinary hobbyist, hence the reason in the title I put EXPERT, but thanks for your comment anyway.
 
baldwinaquaman said:
I'm not sure your right about hat. protein is protein, I eman if I get protein from peanut butter or steak, it's still protein.......I don't know of any fish food that breaks down protein for each eating habits of fish. I am looking for a general answer for omnivorous fish. I know its not the ingredient list, but it can be compared to flake/frozen foods on a nutrient/vitamin/mineral which was the reason for the post. Also, surely there are people on here who are not your ordinary hobbyist, hence the reason in the title I put EXPERT, but thanks for your comment anyway.
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Im no expert but I can tell you you're wrong about the protein part. Yea protein is protein, but there are MILLIONS of different proteins. So Lordofthereef was right in saying different sources are going to give you different proteins. A human can't eat vegetables all of their life because it simply can't offer out bodies some of the proteins meat does. I don't see how the same wouldn't apply for fish. If a fish isn't used to a certain protein what it's body would do is reject it, just like in Humans, I assume.
 
The nutritional requirements would be met by frozen supplementation, so I am not worried about the protein part. Please no wikipedia references becuase anyone on Earth can write anything they want in those articles. It is simply not a reliable reference.
 
if wikipedia is not a reliable reference how can you argue this websight is a reliable reference? pretty much the same exact thing except this is a specialized fish version lol. hey man, if your fish are fat, happy, and healthy eating that stuff then keep buying it. if theyr just as fat and healthy and happy eatin the cheaper stuff then get the cheaper stuff. trying to figure out exact nutrient requirements to make a fish look the best seems a little convoluted, but hey maybe some marine biologist can give you an exact answer.
 
Agree the name of the food will help also there are many, I had try once a food that was made with gelatine and didn't work for me and the price was more for the brand the for the food,I been also adding to the food, garlic elixir, garlic guard, and fish oil, the last one got the idea from Paul B, you can read more in his thread here in RC 35 years old tank, I'm not an expert in food but that's what is doing good for me.
 
I didn't say I am an expert, but I do have more than average nutritional knowledge (I am in Veterinary school). Your statement about protein being protein is incorrect. Yes you get protein from your peanut butter and your steak. Why? Because your digestive tract is able to utilize/break down that protein. If you were to try to eat, say, alfalfa hay, you would get very little, if any, of the protein within, simply because you are not equipped to extract it. The way that many nutrients and namely energies (and all nutrients aside from vitamins, minerals, and water provide energy) are tested on animal feeds is in a bomb calorimeter. Basically, way more energy comes out of those readings than what any animal can utilize. There are actually officially recorded needs of animals as far as what sorts of nutrients they need and are able to synthesize and in what levels. When I said "average person" what I meant was that I highly doubt a fish nutritionist spends their time on these forums. I am not aware (doesn't mean it doesn't exist) of really any recorded values for any specific species when it comes to fish either. It is also important to note that animal feed and human foods have very different guidelines as far as what information is provided. For humans what you see on the back of your peanut butter jar are true values for the food when consumed by humans. What you see on the package of animal feeds is an entirely different format.
 
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blennymower said:
If a fish isn't used to a certain protein what it's body would do is reject it, just like in Humans, I assume.
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A more correct way of saying this would be "If a fish has not evolved to utilize a certain protein it would not break/down and absorb it and subsequently just pass it through its GI tract and excrete it as waste.

FWIW humans can live entirely on a plant-based diet, it is just far more difficult to do than simply consuming meat. BUT... that is for another discussion :)
 
Yeah, there called vegans. And men can do it easier than women can. This discussion has gotten far from the topic. All I wanted was a answer without someone saying well, if this, and if that.......just assume that this food is specifically designed for fish, using (hopefully) marine organisms, THEN how would it stack up to, say ocean nutrition flakes (In a perfect world).
 
baldwinaquaman said:
Yeah, there called vegans. And men can do it easier than women can. This discussion has gotten far from the topic. All I wanted was a answer without someone saying well, if this, and if that.......just assume that this food is specifically designed for fish, using (hopefully) marine organisms, THEN how would it stack up to, say ocean nutrition flakes (In a perfect world).
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I wish I were an expert so we could put an end to this madness. I would figure there would be someone out there from academia or a large research aquarium that could provide some valuable input in the dietary needs of the fish we all love to feed so much.
 
your'e right, there has to be someone on reefcentral that knows about this. I would be shocked if their weren't. I'm surprised that there hasn't been more research on fish foods here on Rc, because especially with fish that are deemed impossible to keep, this may be the solution. Fish nutrition is not where it needs to be, and the hobbyists in general are not where we need to be. Simply saying if they're fat it's ok with me, is not good enough. What if you could add 5-10 years to that fish's life by feeding more quality foods, or what if as stated before you could keep a fish which is not known to be keepable. i want the best for my fish....
 
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