i need help from the reef experts

[greg0385]

let me start off by saying that i am new to this club/site, and i just love it here. for once since starting this hobby, i wont have to drive to a fish store to ask about fish/reef questions. my first post was looking for a 75 gallon tank and within a day i got two ppl bringing their tanks to the swap!
so here is my problem for all who can help!
i have a 150 tank, 4ft long type, i DIY a canopy and beef up the stand that came with the tank. i custom the stand to hold a 4ft sump tank. having this drive to have bigger is better, so i want a 75 gallon tank as a sump. problem is that the stand is 26in tall inside, with a center brace 24in tall from floor. the 75 gallon sump tank is 21 inch tall. the stand doors only allow me a 3inch clearance to do things inside the sump. my thoughts are how to get a skimmer to work or how to work on things that will go wrong.
my solutions that i have came up with so far are-
1) sell the stand or scrap it out and build a taller stand which i love building the canopy so buidling a new stand would be great except the cost for the wood when i could be using that money toward finishing this setup.-this would make me happier toward using bigger sump and building but would prolong the completion of the setup.
2) don't do the 75 gallon sump and use a short type of sump, but don't know what size tank to use.-this would be the easiest and prob the cheapest.
3) construct a way to set up the skimmer behind stand, and just squeeze my hand off in the 3inch clearance to work on stuff inside the sump.-this would be worse of the 3 ideas unless i can figure something else out.
this project is still under construction after a rough year with economy not leaving me alot of extra income to go toward finishing this setup. i can't wait to frag swap, it will be my first year to go and maybe next year will have my tank setup and ready to buy some frags!
any guidance from anyone would help me out, it seems like i try to plan ahead but roadblocks like this seem to pop from time to time,but i miss my 55 gallon setup and can't wait to have the big 150 up and running.
i hope i explain well enough for everyone to understand my situation, but for any reason i didn't just let me know what you need to know.
thanks a million and you all at the swap!
greg

 

[NeedBiggerTank]

I think I'd go with option #2 - find a shorter tank to fit under your cabinet. Most skimmer collection cups are taller than 3", so even if you could lift it up and off the skimmer body, you couldn't get it out of there.

Don't know if you have the space, but a number of the reefers here have sumps in a basement, garage or another room - with plumbing under the floor or through a wall. That may or may not be an option for you.

 

[greg0385]

no basement just crawl space and the tank is located just in from crawl space entrance, which im going to pour a bag of concrete and brace the flooring to help support all the weight. i believe your right with the smaller sump. will look up tanks and see what will work/fit better. any suggestions?

 

[greg0385]

oh here lies another problem, i had my 55gallon tank as fowlr setup. i sold the livestock a year ago after buying the 150. i turned the 55 into a sump and i bought a large inline pump that does 2400gph, it has 1.5 inlet and outlets. my idea was to have it as a close loop system having the outlet tee off at the top of tank and return most of the water back in the DT with a couple powerheads in the dead area. i self drilled the 150 for 1.5bulkeads and i put 3 evenly space apart across the back about 3-4 inch from the top. i built my own overflow and going to have the the 3 drains combine and do down near the floor and tee off where one will be valve draining into the sump at about 500gph and the other drain will just go back in the return.
now to my problem- i forgot to check to see if my 55 was tempered on the back glass, but i did check the 150 and of course it wasnt. well the 55 shattered when drilling it and i need to have a sump that i can drill a bulkhead for atleast the drain from sump to pump since i don't trust over the top type of drain. so thats why i was going with the 75 tank because i believe the bigger tanks aren't as likely to be tempered as the smaller ones.
do they make smaller tanks not tempered? or should i find a plastic container?

 

[Pickupman66]

Can speak from experience, shorty stands SUCK! I can tell u, it will haunt you for a long time. Buck up and build the larger stand. You will be thankful down the road

 

[greg0385]

Can speak from experience, shorty stands SUCK! I can tell u, it will haunt you for a long time. Buck up and build the larger stand. You will be thankful down the road

if i could only find someone that needs a stand and canopy. the stand has 1 by 4 planks and i built the canopy to match it. but if i was to build another stand it be 2 by 4 frame with a thin sheet of plywood as the skin and i would want to build a matching conopy.

 

[poolkeeper1]

Your Idea about using a closed loop for some of your sump return will not work. It will always have the ability to drift away from the amount you want to go from one to the other, In other words you can and most likely will overflow your sump JMO
Bill

 

[ocd_mariner]

Didn't read this thread through but I skimmed a piece that caught my eye. 75 gallon tanks are commonly shipped with tempered glass.

 

[greg0385]

thats what i like about the status that i am in with this project. because right now what it boils down to is i have is my 150 empty tank/stand and a pump, i can plumb it how ever it need to be done, i went with the 3-1.5 bulkheads because i hate being limited after doing something then wishing i would have done bigger. i can use whatever kind of sump needed too and i can even build a new stand if needed too. this is why i would like suggestions from people who have been through this. because now is the time to go in the right direction instead of me doing what i think will work to find out the hard way when my floors are wet or my tank crashs.

 

[shirley386]

I agree that you should bite the bullet and build a stand tall enough to be able to work in your sump without restrictions. I'm not sure I followed everything you said about your closed loop but if part of it goes to the sump it will overflow in a power failure (your tank will drain down to the lowest bulkhead).

 

[Pickupman66]

ill add to my previous post. when I had the short stand I was severely limited to my skimmers and sizes. now that I have a 36" tall stand, I could put just about any of the high end skimmers in there and a 75 galon sump easily. while I dont use the space, I now have it all packed full of goodies for the swap! it will be bare underneath by next week and i can setup my QT system underneath the main tank.

my old 75 had teh bottom tempered I know cause of the sticker. I dont know about the sides of it.

 

[greg0385]

thanks too all that has comment on this problem. i really like the idea about buidling a new stand, and if build a new stand i will build a new canopy as well. so if you know anyone needs a 24" wide stand and canopy let them know i got one.
now i understand what you all are saying about the plumbing and so let me know what you would do in with a 150 tank, with 3- 1.5bulkheads and a 2400gph pump. the last thing i want to do is buy plumbing and it fails/flood.
how about if i just use the center bulkhead direct to the sump and then use the other two combine down to a tee on the inlet part of the pump and the other part coming from the bulkhead of the sump.
i want to get this right so any help would be awesome.

 

[Pickupman66]

Do you have overflows in the tank now? maybe take some photos for us to see.

on my 180, I have dual overflows with the drain and returns inside them. I also have three holes in teh back of the tank. a single 1.5" one in the middle and a 1" one on each end of the back wall. I use the middle for the suction line for my closed loop pump with a Dart pump. the other two are the outlets and are split into dual lockline.

If you have an overflow seperate from these, I would do it that way. depends on the holes you ahve in them if you have them, but if you nly have a drain hole in the overflows, just take your sump return up and over teh top. this gives you a much safer anti siphon than using the drilled holes for the sump return. my sump returns protrude about 1" under the surface and the tank will drain down to that point.

Here is a good photo to see what my layout looks like.

here is teh top on one side. you can see the lockline from teh closed loop to the right, the pipe on the top rim is the return pipe and it is repeated the same on the other side. it goes thru a seaswirl on each end.

 

[greg0385]

how do i upload picture from my documents?

 

[Pickupman66]

Go to Photobucket.com and sign up for an account there.

upload teh photos and then copy the IMG link to the page here.

Lemme see if I can dig up instructions. you can also attach a file via the advanced tab, biut I never use that.

Here ya go.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/faq.php?faq=vb3_reading_posting#faq_vb3_attachments

 

[greg0385]

this is my project tank, the black dots are where the bulkheads are generally located on the back glass. they actually are space even apart across back glass about 2-3inch from trim.

 

[Pickupman66]

Interesting.... you can still use those for a closed loop. im guessing it doesnt have a build in overflow judging by the photo. that being said, and given teh condition you ahve it all in, I would consider doing something like a Glass Holes overflow kit go to www.glass Holes.com (remove the space.) and check those out. that will give you an overflow you can use in the middle hole. then do your return up and over the top of the tank. as for the other two holes, you may just want to plug them from there and then do your extra circulation with a powerheads.

Last option if you are good with drilling the tank is to use those three existing for a closed loop system and then get an overflow kit from the above mentioned company , drilling and installing that and do the returns over the top rim.

 

[greg0385]

i thought i needed about 15x turnover on the DT and a 5x turn over in the sump. i thought a free flowing 1.5 bulkhead drains at about 600gph. so i was going to do a piece of plexiglass 48"long and about 6" tall or so and have it at about a 45degree angle as a coast to coast overflow. i might use two pieces and make more of a box type but i figure as long as i had enough space for the internal bulkhead to drain that one piece would do fine. so with one bulkhead draining into the sump at about 600gph+, and about 1200-1600gph being out of the other two due to the siphon/suction of the pump on the intlet port i could use two wirly bird spouts or loc line up and over the tank and have powerheads in the dead spots. i understand sorta about flooding the bottom tank, but if thats the case could i get a powerhead or another pump just to pump water out of it back to the DT? as you can tell i like to do more of the DIY projects then buying the same product. as you can tell, plumbing isn't my strong point, but thats what i love about this hobby. soon enough i will be a master plumber and a carpenter, then electrician. then maybe just maybe i will become a master reefer!

also should i post a ad for the stand and canopy or should i just scrap it out. as you can tell im not 100% finish with the canopy it needs a sanding and another coat of gloss, but nowhere to do it and its way to cold to do it outside right now.

i really appreciate all the information so far, this is way better then reading hours on end on the net. if all possibile would like to meet all who are coming to the swap to thank you in person.
greg

 

[Pickupman66]

you havent had enough posts to sell things on here yet. must be here with 50 posts and 90 days to post for sale.

as for turnover, Personally I believe that you need about 5-10X to run thru the sump and depending on your coral aspirations, 40-80x for keeping SPS corals. in my 180 dt, I am somewhere close to 7200 GPH total. 1500 or so from my sump and the rest is made up with the closed loop and some powerheads.

using one of your bulkheads as a coast to coast would work well. those are nice. ou can use theother two for a closed loop and then take your sump return over the top rim. doing this gives you the least chance of overflowing our sump in case of power outage.

the last option I can see is drilling one more bulkhead for an overflow and using the three existing ones as a single suction and dual return for the closed loop. one outlet on each end.

im pretty good with plumbing things. what part of town are you in?

 

[greg0385]

i currently live in summertown,tn- its 20miles either way to columbia and lawrenceburg and about 90mins or less to nashville