I need some help, premixed saltwater (Ammonia).

[C3fred]

Alright I can go into more detail as requested.

Here is the problem, my saltwater premix that I make has ammonia in it. I have tried and tried to Google this but I can't come up with a answer.

All the tests I have done to date,​

1) Started off with a 15 gallon tub, air stone, and power head, and heater.
2) Found out I had ammonia in the my premix so I got a 33 gallon brute can and transfer my set up into that.
3) Still had ammonia, I read that a cat box could be the reason (Even though it is a room away from my mix.) I moved my can to the other side of the house.
4) Still had ammonia, I switch out for a new power head
5) ...., I switched out the air stone for a new one.
6) ...., I switched out the heater for a new one.
7) ...., Switched salt, still using instant reef just got a new box.
8)...., Yes I use tap water, I know I plan to switch to RO when I have the money. But my tap water is fine. I made a 5 gallon bucket of saltwater like I normal do and let that sit for 24 hours and no ammonia was present.(Also tested tap water from the tap with no salt or anything added and had 0.)
9) ...., At this point I can't figure out what is going on I think I have tried everything so I have been testing the water and running tests.

First off I have tried using Kent Marine Pro-Ammonia detox but that will not bring down the ammonia not even if I over does it.

-Day 1 fresh batch once it was clear I tested it no ammonia.
-Day 2 0.25 ammonia
-Day 3 0.50 ammonia
-Day 4 1.0 ...
-Day 5 2.0 ...

Now my ammonia test kit is working, I have a stable 60 gallon that has no ammonia and a cycling 37 gallon that has started to spike.

Today I took 5 gallon out of my brute can witch was at 2.0 ammonia, Set it up with heater and air stone, I over does it with Kent. (treated 20 gallons for just 5) And one hour later I had 1.0 ammonia. To treat each 5 gallon till it is 0 just isn't worth it, I don't even want to use additives to my mix.

I really need the help at this point, I think I filled in the detailed of what I have done. If I missed anything or didn't make sense just reply and ask I know my English is not that good. (spelling and grammar anyways). I do know the names of each product I used but I figure it doesn't matter seeing as I ruled it out but if you would like to know just ask.

 

[brandon429]

Sounds like a case of the world's most predictable api Ammonia test kit thread

We go round and round about this here
Are you using api

 

[C3fred]

Sounds like a case of the world's most predictable api Ammonia test kit thread

We go round and round about this here
Are you using api

Yes I am, what should I get a different ammonia test?

Why does it seem to work for my tanks but not my mix?

What do you recommend?

And thank you for the reply.

 

[Merman1983]

Why are you mixing your salt to the water before the water has been treated for ammonia?

 

[C3fred]

Why are you mixing your salt to the water before the water has been treated for ammonia?

From the tap I have no ammonia, And I do use Marine conditioner before I mix my salt.

 

[Merman1983]

Not to insult your intelligence, but are you using the right amount of the marine conditioner? I have seen people use a cap full per gallon when they were only supposed to use a drop per gallon. That stuff is usually unnecessary if the water has already set up a day. And it will raise the ammonia as it rots away.

 

[C3fred]

Not to insult your intelligence, but are you using the right amount of the marine conditioner? I have seen people use a cap full per gallon when they were only supposed to use a drop per gallon. That stuff is usually unnecessary if the water has already set up a day. And it will raise the ammonia as it rots away.

On the bottle it says to use 5ml for every 10 gallons. I use 1/2 tsp. per 5 gallon buckets that I mix my water in before I put it into the brute can.

I could give it a try, not using the conditioner. I normally let my water sit for at least 24 hours to let the pH balance out. My worry about doing so is I don't know if there is Chlorine, Chloramine, or Heavy Metals in my water. As I said in the post I do want to set up a RO water system but I just don't have the cash for it yet.

 

[Merman1983]

I have had bad experiences with conditioners, a lot of brands seem to really pollute the water. Are you doing fish only, live rock, coral?

 

[C3fred]

I have had bad experiences with conditioners, a lot of brands seem to really pollute the water. Are you doing fish only, live rock, coral?

I use the water for two coral tanks and two fish only tanks.

Everything I have learned in the pass year about this hobby is that everyone's situation is different. I am mainly looking for ideas to try that I have not thought of. You gave me one, not to use Instant Ocean Marine Conditioner. Also to try a different ammonia test. Only problem I have now is I have 25 gallons of water I don't want to waste.

 

[Merman1983]

Good luck on that, probably the ammonia test kit, from some of the things I have read on here..

 

[C3fred]

Good luck on that, probably the ammonia test kit, from some of the things I have read on here..

Yes I will be going to buy a new one today, I am thinking about using the one that sticks into the tank and last a year. I will post again with results just incase someone ever has the problem I did and comes across this thread. Plus if it doesn't work I am still open for new ideas.

Thanks for your input.

 

[brandon429]

People have different feelings about api ammonia test kit accuracy, that's how I was able to know that's what you were using out of the ten or so available varieties

Pretty much any time there is low grade ammonia showing where it kinda should not be, you call out api and it's nearly always the predicted kit. Some confounding variables can be:
Api and other colorimetric kits can be adulterated with common aquarium chemicals to make false positives, or give indications that are different from true risky situations. Such as, using the conditioner 'prime' which is common for us will make an api test sample read dark high in nitrites when in fact there are none

Prime can bind ammonia to a harmless state, but api will register it as total ammonia not indicated in a safe complex etc.

By searching you can find nearly silly api challenge threads where people simply tested a known zero source like distilled water, and still read .25 and they post a pic of the light colored .25 indicated sample

there are some instances during dry rock cycling where the kits do ring true when compared to other readings so we are dealing with at least a possibility of inconsistency

I'd be curious to see what other kits read, or to know details about your source water as we have seen in the past things like broken or aged ro membranes leaking ammonia, or times where well water after recent rains carries some raw ammonia by the act of percolation where it otherwise wouldn't be there. There are also times we know an initial salt mix can produce ammonia during dissolution, but for that to hang around very long past a couple hours at most is again suspect

Either way you feel about api, I called it

 

[brandon429]

The number one undisputable time api causes problems is in the new beginner thread

On a hundred occasions, someone brings home purple cured live rock with no fancy growths etc and asks why their cycle is taking two months of .25 constant. The short answer is, it ain't. You got lied to on day one that's all

 

[Cozwey]

API + ammonia testing = grief!!!!!
I am a fan of Salifert now.
Switch and I think as state several times above you may find it is different.
Same thing happened to us.

 

[C3fred]

Pretty much any time there is low grade ammonia showing where it kinda should not be

Only issue with that is that my ammonia has been going up the longer I let is sit. But I have read that API can show 0.25 witch is why I wouldn't have been worried. But as of yesterday I read 2.0, ether way I will be getting a different test in a few hours. I will post the results from API and the new one to see if anything has changed.

to know details about your source water

Any special way to do that or just tell it with the API kit?

Also should I test it...
-Straight from the tap untouched
-Add Marine Conditioner
-Add Marine Conditioner and salt

 

[brandon429]

What I was meaning was if you know for a fact your source water is safe, for example I'm sure mine has no ammonia it's a gallon of distilled water, then we can look at your salt mix brand or storage container leaching issues etc. Should be easy to pinpoint. If you are using dechlor tap I'm sure the chemists can relay how chloramine reading could be at play etc

 

[C3fred]

API + ammonia testing = grief!!!!!
I am a fan of Salifert now.
Switch and I think as state several times above you may find it is different.
Same thing happened to us.

I would try Salifert but my lfs doesn't have them. That I have seen so I would have to order online.

 

[C3fred]

What I was meaning was if you know for a fact your source water is safe, for example I'm sure mine has no ammonia it's a gallon of distilled water, then we can look at your salt mix brand or storage container leaching issues etc. Should be easy to pinpoint. If you are using dechlor tap I'm sure the chemists can relay how chloramine reading could be at play etc

Well my girls 29 gallon bio cube has been running for 10 months with no problems on our tap water. As for how I store and mix, I use a 33 gallon brute food approved, brand new with Instant Ocean Reef Crystals for salt. I have been just adding Instant Ocean Marine Conditioner. It calms to make tap water safe by eliminating Chlorine, Chloramine, and Heavy Metals. I couldn't tell you for sure that it is doing the job but like I said my girls bio cube was running great... was being the key word her bio cube blow up with green hair algae. That would be the reason we tested the water trying to get to the bottom of why this happen.

 

[C3fred]

-Day 6: Using Seachem Ammonia Alert, (Directions: "The presence of free ammonia registers within 15 minutes. I left it in my brute can for 30 minutes.) Test results say 0.05ppm. I retested my API and got 2.0 ppm.

To test the Seachem stick on ammonia tester, I put it in the 60 gallon that API ammonia tester says I have 0 ppm. The Seachem is registering <0.02 ppm.

So I am going to say my brute can has ammonia but I don't feel that 0.05 ppm will make to much of a difference. I would like to know where this 0.05 ppm is coming from but its way better then 2.0 ppm. I still want to know what the problem is using the API in my saltwater mix.

 

[dkeller_nc]

One comment that might assist you. Depending on where you live, the municipal water authority might be using chloramine as a disinfectant rather than just chlorine. Depending on their chemistry, not all hobbyist ammonia test kits will register the ammonia component of the chloramine - in fact, the tap water might read zero for total ammonia when it's actually around 2.0 ppm if the chloramine was broken down into chlorine and ammonia.

While it's not optimal to use saltwater made from tap water, if your tank has a functioning biological filter and you don't change more than 10% at a time, the amount of ammonia that you might be introducing is going to be pretty trivial, and the bacteria in the tank will process it to nitrite and then to nitrate very rapidly.

That doesn't alleviate the concern over essentially fertilizing the tank (ammonia and its breakdown products are good fertilizers for algae), but it's also not likely to kill anything.

However, I would suggest that you not use tap water for evaporation make-up. Using anything other than purified water for the purpose will potentially concentrate the metals in the water, including copper.