Ich Experience- Cupramine Added to DT

e55MD

Member
As many of you on this forum are aware, last year I had a major ich outbreak in my 400 gallon FOWLR tank. At that time, I set up a HT, removed 550lbs of LR and drained my DT in order to catch my fish and transfer them to the HT for Cupramine treatment. It was a very huge and unpleasant undertaking.
My DT was fallowed with the LR for 8 weeks before my cured fish were reintroduced.

About 6 weeks ago the ich came back. I was not willing to go
through the whole exercise again. I kept reading over and over again never to add medications to your DT. I removed about 200 lbs of LR (leaving 350lb in the DT), my urchins, and anemone and added cupramine to the DT.

I am now a week into this. The fish are starting to look much better and they are eating well. I never had any significant ammonia spikes or other water chemistry problems. In order to keep my copper levels between 0.25-0.5ppm I am having to dose a lot of Cupramine. In fact, I have used about 300ml so far. I check the copper level twice a day and dose accordingly. So it is true that a lot is absorbed into the LR and substrate.

I plan on a full 28 day course of Cupramine. At that point I plan on running carbon/cuprisorb for several months to remove as much copper as I possibly can. My UV sterilizers will be turned back on after there is no detectable copper. The LR I removed will be returned to my DT after 2 months to ensure (hopefully) full ich die off. I will be returning some inverts back to my tank at some point in the future and I have a hunch I will be successful.

The point of this story is that there are so many "absolute truths" you read about in this hobby. Either my success with treating my DT is an exception or it can be done ( of course there are many confounding variables for example tank size, age of system, filtration etc).

I am not advocating that other people add copper or hypo their DT's for ich. However, I feel it is a reasonable option. I would probably never have done it if my system were not so big.

I will post my progress in the future. I am sure a lot of people will tell me what a horrible idea it was.
 
Greg...you took the right course of action for sure. LR can be brought back. Dosing the DT when it is FOWLR is fairly common. You will notice that a lot of high end companies have the fake rock in tanks with just fish so that they can clean and dose medications at the drop of a hat.

I myself dose my DT when I need to. I am very glad that your fish are doing well and expect to see emails with beautiful pictures when it is all better :)
 
I agree. You did something that can be done if properly monitored for constant levels.

That's a lot of copper your LR and substrate is absorbing. 100mL is suppose to treat 500 gallons the bottles says.
 
Aquariums across the board are different and aquarists sometimes mix and match meds or do not follow directions (i.e. testing, remove carbon, stop skiiming, etc.). When treatment doesn't works as desired, bad rap accumulates and a new "do not do this" story is born.

I'm glad your fish are getting better and please keep us updated on your treatment progress. Would be interesting to read results of copper removal efforts and if invertebrates can be reintroduced in tank. By the way, did you add anything alive to tank recently before Crypto showed up?
 
Good luck Greg, i hope all works out for you and your beautiful collection of fish. personally that is the way i would of done it myself
 
I think you made the right choice. Hopefully you will achieve an ich free tank. Only I suggest is that you leave your other live rock and inverts out longer than 2 months, since many people have discovered that is not a long enough fallow period. I'd hate to see you reintroduce ich back into your display again. Goodluck with everything and keep us updated on how it goes.
 
Greg, any thoughts on what caused the ick to return? Did you have a new addition? I was thinking you were QTing everything.
 
interesting post.

is the puffer in the 400g 'copper' tank? i was always under the impression that copper + puffers does NOT work well
 
Puffers aren't good with copper, but cupramine is not as harsh as most copper treatments. I treated my eel (which are the same as puffers) with cupramine, he was fine, just didn't eat as much. Still each fish is different and reacts differently.
 
someone else here tried treating with copper (maybe cupramine?) and his puffer started asking very funny so he added carbon to remove, then used hypo.
 
This is the second time my Golden and Blue-Spotted puffers have been treated with Cupramine. They seem to tolerate it as well as all my other fishes.
 
Glad to hear you have something that is working out for you. Hopefully it works well and you achieve the desired results. I'm in the same boat really, except you've got more rare/expensive fish than me and a bigger tank ;)

I've got ich in my tank, I know I do. Right now I'm already doing hypo so I'm going to keep this up, but if after the hypo ich shows up, I'm going to go ahead and treat the thing with copper. I dont even care about my rock, at this point it's been through hypo 1.5 times and there are no inverts left on it. I only consider it live rock because it has bacterial colonies.

I'd agree with whoever said it a couple posts ago, there have been actual lab tests on the life cycle of ich in fallow tanks (which is what I would consider wherever you are storing your live rock) and they were found through use of a microscope in the water for up to 12 weeks of fallowness. Never after 12 weeks though, that seemed to be the longest the ich could make it without a host.

I really wish I could find that data again, but I remember reading it and it was very well done. I've searched for it a couple times over the last 6 months and never can find it.

Anyway, all I'm saying is I would probably leave your LR out of the tank for 3 whole months, then reintroduce. It would suck to do all that you are doing now and then put live rock back in which has minute amounts of ich still harbored in them, all your hard work will be for naught.

Just my opinion!

I'd like to see a picture of your main tank dosed with copper, that green glow can be kind of neat looking ;)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14942016#post14942016 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DamnPepShrimp
...Only I suggest is that you leave your other live rock and inverts out longer than 2 months, since many people have discovered that is not a long enough fallow period....
Parasite's metabolism and life cycle length are directly related to a system's temperature. If Crypto is actually a single species, it's possible the different length periods recommended for live rock & invertebrate "fish less" QT, are caused by differences in aquarium temperatures.

It follows that adjusting temperature to maximum tolerated by those desired invertebrates will help shorten parasite (i.e. Crypto) life cycle and eventual die-off due to lack of proper hosts. I'm not aware of any tables etc. that co-relate Crypto life cycle to temperature. Still, would keep both DT (LR & fish) & the QT (LR & invertebrates) at the maximum temperature the housed species tolerate.
 
Recty,

I think I agree with you on keeping the remainder of my LR out for 12 weeks. I am planning some stocking changes as well. I am going to part with my triggers (too aggressive and a heavy bioload). I will replace them with a juvenille Christmas Island Emperor and a Gem Tang (plans are being made to acquire these).
 
Dennis,

Clown triggers are one of my favorite fish. However, I am shifting more into the rare fish mode (Conspic. , Gem Tang) with plans for a Clipperton and maybe Clarion Angel in the future. These fish are too expensive to risk them being attacked by a clown trigger.
 
Greg,

I wish i had the funds avaliable for some of them rare fishies but ill just have to settle for the mid range not everyday fish store fishies.
 
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