"ICH FREE TANK" Quest Begins
- Thread starter Triggerfish
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AquAsylum
New member
Good news, Donna!
Markcasto, I don't know what that is. I guess the best case would be that it is lesions from the ich and could heal with some melafix. poor little guy! Our tang has a bruise/blotch on it that I can't see up close.
Speaking of test kits, did any of you have issues with ammonia test kits during hypo? I'm getting very different readings. Posted for help in the Salifert forum also. My salifert kit says ZERO
, but the mardel dip strip reads .50 and the AP test tube is about .75. I read about certain tests only reading the free (bad) ammonia, and others that catch all ammonia, even after it has been converted. Is it possible that since I'm using prime, the ammonia isn't toxic, but higher levels are still detected on the "lesser" tests?
Either way, I'm doing a 10 gallon water change every blasted night...
Markcasto, I don't know what that is. I guess the best case would be that it is lesions from the ich and could heal with some melafix. poor little guy! Our tang has a bruise/blotch on it that I can't see up close.
Speaking of test kits, did any of you have issues with ammonia test kits during hypo? I'm getting very different readings. Posted for help in the Salifert forum also. My salifert kit says ZERO
, but the mardel dip strip reads .50 and the AP test tube is about .75. I read about certain tests only reading the free (bad) ammonia, and others that catch all ammonia, even after it has been converted. Is it possible that since I'm using prime, the ammonia isn't toxic, but higher levels are still detected on the "lesser" tests?Either way, I'm doing a 10 gallon water change every blasted night...
Triggerfish
Active member
yeah mark, it just doesn't seem like those brown marks would be related to the parasite. just thinking that everything seemed fine until you began the copper medication...coincidence perhaps.
probably the various test kits will test slighly different forms of ammonia..i see that the salifert is labeled as NH4 testing for "the sum of toxic ammonia and ammonium."
AP is stating it tests NH3 "total ammonia"
probably the various test kits will test slighly different forms of ammonia..i see that the salifert is labeled as NH4 testing for "the sum of toxic ammonia and ammonium."
AP is stating it tests NH3 "total ammonia"
They seem like they could be sites of inflammatory response. They fit the description of lesions, too. This isn't a response to Marine Ich that I've been familiar with. Maybe there was something else going on either in addition or different than the MI you thought was the problem. Lesions can be the result of a couple different afflictions.
markcasto
New member
Well I have no idea what it is but whatever it is not good.
The ammonia test kits by salifert test for total ammonia I did not get on with them found them hard to read and I used Tetra test kits which were really good and clear.
Also used seachems alert badge which after 3 days worked really well. And I am still using it to monitor the 52 gallon tank.
The ammonia test kits by salifert test for total ammonia I did not get on with them found them hard to read and I used Tetra test kits which were really good and clear.
Also used seachems alert badge which after 3 days worked really well. And I am still using it to monitor the 52 gallon tank.
They do look like some sort of "chemical" burns - copper, ammonia, nitrite etc. I had that happen to a Chromis after I lost the Blue Tang. Unfortunately, I lost that Chromis because the associated bacterial infection spread within a few hours (by the time I could treat with antibiotics it was too late). I moved the other Chromis to clean water and they survived. I assumed it was related to the ammonia or nitrites I was battling due to the timing.
Leebca,
I agree with your comment about copper. However, I bought a Seachem test kit so it would match Cupramine (made by SeaChem). It never registered copper even though I dosed to .25. I took it back to the lfs with a sample of water. He tried it, same results. He tried Red Sea Test and it measured .25 on the nose (so he switched it out for me).
I agree with your comment about copper. However, I bought a Seachem test kit so it would match Cupramine (made by SeaChem). It never registered copper even though I dosed to .25. I took it back to the lfs with a sample of water. He tried it, same results. He tried Red Sea Test and it measured .25 on the nose (so he switched it out for me).
Triggerfish
Active member
wonder if the test kit was defective..very odd indeed.
plaz,
There's many things that can go wrong. Everything needs to be verfied: Test kit age; was it used properly; was the medication within its date; was the medication added, somehow precipitated out and then re-soluablized; etc.; etc.
The matter is for SeaChem to help resolve, but I know there are many things that go wrong. The best rule of thumb is use the test kit recommended by the medication manufacturer and keep the concentration in the zone they recommend.
There's many things that can go wrong. Everything needs to be verfied: Test kit age; was it used properly; was the medication within its date; was the medication added, somehow precipitated out and then re-soluablized; etc.; etc.
The matter is for SeaChem to help resolve, but I know there are many things that go wrong. The best rule of thumb is use the test kit recommended by the medication manufacturer and keep the concentration in the zone they recommend.
markcasto
New member
The brown marks appeared before I used the copper treatment on the 2nd day that the salinity was raised to 1.011sg they showed up along with what was clearly ich all over the tangs and one or two chromis.When I looked at them close up they seem to be where the injury is healing itself and scales are missing in those places?I then started to use the copper.I checked through my notes as I raised the sg to find out if it was the copper.
Triggerfish
Active member
perhaps some other secondary infection took hold..not really much else it could have been i don't think..
AquAsylum
New member
Ok, bad news. This morning I spotted a fairly decent outbreak of spots. They are on the clowns, clown goby, and fairy wrasse. Below is our timeline, please let me know if you think this should be expected or if it sounds like we have a hypo resistant strain.
Removed from display, given FW dip: 7/5
Water changes reached 14 ppt/1.009 sg: 7/8
New trophonts recognized: 7/14
I dosed paraguard this morning and plan a 50% water change this evening. Still can't figure out what's up with the ammonia tests.
Removed from display, given FW dip: 7/5
Water changes reached 14 ppt/1.009 sg: 7/8
New trophonts recognized: 7/14
I dosed paraguard this morning and plan a 50% water change this evening. Still can't figure out what's up with the ammonia tests.
Triggerfish
Active member
perfectly normal and in fact,,right on target. if you re-read the data regarding the lifecycle you would recognize that it would take between 3-7 days for the trophonts to appear.
so in fact the fish were still infected a/o 7/8,,those parasites are now maturing...as those fall off, the hypo should destroy most/some of the tomonts.
i have found that you do not need to lower the sg over a 4 day period. fish can tolerate lowering much easier than increases.
i would trash the ap test kit,,they tend to read on the high side anyway..i have found that with my NO3 kit,,their NH3 kit is sort of hard to read as even if there is no ammonia the kit still registers a green color.
i have never liked the dip sticks,,just too hard to distinguish what the readings are.
so in fact the fish were still infected a/o 7/8,,those parasites are now maturing...as those fall off, the hypo should destroy most/some of the tomonts.
i have found that you do not need to lower the sg over a 4 day period. fish can tolerate lowering much easier than increases.
i would trash the ap test kit,,they tend to read on the high side anyway..i have found that with my NO3 kit,,their NH3 kit is sort of hard to read as even if there is no ammonia the kit still registers a green color.
i have never liked the dip sticks,,just too hard to distinguish what the readings are.
AquAsylum
New member
I am going to get the Seachem Ammonia kit. It has separate tests for total ammonia and free ammonia. That will really let me know what's going on. The Seachem website specifically says that other tests get confused with total ammonia when using something like Prime.
I got the dip sticks to be my lazy morning tests, but they really aren't worth it.
You're right about the life cycle, it's just such a mind trick when you don't see spots for almost a week and then....they're baaaack!
I got the dip sticks to be my lazy morning tests, but they really aren't worth it.
You're right about the life cycle, it's just such a mind trick when you don't see spots for almost a week and then....they're baaaack!
markcasto
New member
The hypo may destroy the tomonts just remember that I was at 1.009 for a full 4 weeks and that did not kill them.I raised it to 1.011 and on the second day of raising it after the 4th week they came right back again.But the fish looked clean for those 4 weeks and I watched them like a hawk every day for any spots.Give them a full 6 weeks hypo like tjay did we need to know if the full 6 weeks is going to do the job.
Triggerfish
Active member
Post QT: Week 2 Update
Post QT: Week 2 Update
<h3>Post QT Phase 1</h3>
History
5/13 - Ich noticed in main tank on Asfur Angel(possibly from addition of 40# of newly added LR from tank with history of ich)
5/28 - Population increases: all fish removed, except Blenny
5/28- 7/1 - Angel quarantined with variable degrees of hypo treatment
7/2 - angel back in display: not showing signs of infection for 3 weeks, QT he was in did have signs of the parasite on 2-3 other fish.
7/5 - 3 spots show up on angel in display tank
7/8 - the outbreak appears to be low: 3-4 visible spots each cycle.
<hr width=100% size=7 noshade>
Week 2: (no casualties reported to date)
7/9 - added a new royal gramma. put through 1 hour of baths and dips with formalin and paraguard.
7/11 - niger trigger added back to display - no signs of ich.
7/15 - the ich has multiplied a bit in population on the angel. was hoping it would have not been the case,,but again, not surprising. it still seems low level and the angel is the only fish showing signs of the parasite at this point.
Plan
1. keep fish in tank (4) if level continues to be on the low side
2. will not add anymore new fish to the tank.
3. will try ginger root this week
4. as a controlled experiment (prior to ginger root) may try a "reef safe" medication. not expecting much of anything. more or less a confirmation that the product does or does not work.
Summary
Ich still in tank for 4 possible reasons:
1. tank was not completely fallow for the 5 weeks.LMB was there, perhaps not immune or if was, the ich can continue lifecycle on an immune host??
2. the 5 weeks was not long enough even if LMB was not hosting.
3. the angel still had parasites on him upon his return.
4. new ich strain from new rock,corals added to tank without quarantine.
many variables here,,unfortunetely it could be a combination of all the above. but, it's still there so the quest continues.
4 other fish in QT still undergoing hypo..not sure if spots are still there as my maroon seems to have something on him, but i think it's flukes or something. i still plan on trading in the maroon and puffer.
good luck to all..
Post QT: Week 2 Update
<h3>Post QT Phase 1</h3>
History
5/13 - Ich noticed in main tank on Asfur Angel(possibly from addition of 40# of newly added LR from tank with history of ich)
5/28 - Population increases: all fish removed, except Blenny
5/28- 7/1 - Angel quarantined with variable degrees of hypo treatment
7/2 - angel back in display: not showing signs of infection for 3 weeks, QT he was in did have signs of the parasite on 2-3 other fish.
7/5 - 3 spots show up on angel in display tank
7/8 - the outbreak appears to be low: 3-4 visible spots each cycle.
<hr width=100% size=7 noshade>
Week 2: (no casualties reported to date)
7/9 - added a new royal gramma. put through 1 hour of baths and dips with formalin and paraguard.
7/11 - niger trigger added back to display - no signs of ich.
7/15 - the ich has multiplied a bit in population on the angel. was hoping it would have not been the case,,but again, not surprising. it still seems low level and the angel is the only fish showing signs of the parasite at this point.
Plan
1. keep fish in tank (4) if level continues to be on the low side
2. will not add anymore new fish to the tank.
3. will try ginger root this week
4. as a controlled experiment (prior to ginger root) may try a "reef safe" medication. not expecting much of anything. more or less a confirmation that the product does or does not work.
Summary
Ich still in tank for 4 possible reasons:
1. tank was not completely fallow for the 5 weeks.LMB was there, perhaps not immune or if was, the ich can continue lifecycle on an immune host??
2. the 5 weeks was not long enough even if LMB was not hosting.
3. the angel still had parasites on him upon his return.
4. new ich strain from new rock,corals added to tank without quarantine.
many variables here,,unfortunetely it could be a combination of all the above. but, it's still there so the quest continues.
4 other fish in QT still undergoing hypo..not sure if spots are still there as my maroon seems to have something on him, but i think it's flukes or something. i still plan on trading in the maroon and puffer.
good luck to all..
AquAsylum
New member
Ok, I have the alert badge on the glass and the seachem multi test is on the way. I must resolve this once and for all- do I really have a major ammonia problem, or is Prime doing its job but confusing the tests?
markcasto- I think you're the one who had the alert badge. How long did it take to adjust to your water and give a reading? The directions say it can take a couple of days.
We're leaving town for the weekend and I'm very nervous about leaving the tank. I did a 40% water change last night and will add a little bit of fresh RO before I leave so that evaporation doesn't raise the salinity over 14 ppt. I will also dose paraguard, prime, stability, and some buffer on the way out. I'm sure that if I feed them after work they'll be okay until Sunday afternoon....right?
markcasto- I think you're the one who had the alert badge. How long did it take to adjust to your water and give a reading? The directions say it can take a couple of days.
We're leaving town for the weekend and I'm very nervous about leaving the tank. I did a 40% water change last night and will add a little bit of fresh RO before I leave so that evaporation doesn't raise the salinity over 14 ppt. I will also dose paraguard, prime, stability, and some buffer on the way out. I'm sure that if I feed them after work they'll be okay until Sunday afternoon....right?
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