Adding corals and not restarting the timeclock is kind of like Russian Roulette. Often you win, sometimes you loose. If you are going to all this trouble, I don't think it is worth it to take a chance on starting over. Quarantine everything, especially corals, snails and macro algae from friends!
"ICH FREE TANK" Quest Begins
- Thread starter Triggerfish
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Triggerfish
Active member
it's best to get corals that come from fishless tanks, that way you do not have to worry about importing fish related parasites and such.
8 weeks fallow is recommened as the time to strive for. "7 weeks is not wrong and 6 is a bit light" quote from Leebca.
8 weeks fallow is recommened as the time to strive for. "7 weeks is not wrong and 6 is a bit light" quote from Leebca.
pclausen
New member
I have read this thread with interest, but have a question about what water to use for making water changes in the QT tank. I plan on using the hypo method.
A quick timeline of my situation to date:
6/1 400g system goes online
6/24 55g QT goes online w/ 2 clowns
7/15 moved clowns to display
7/15 added yellow tail damsel to QT
7/17 moved clowns back to QT
7/17 added yellow tang to display
To date both systems have been maintained at 1.026. I moved the clowns to the display after 3 weeks of them looking as healthy as could be. After 3 days I noticed a cotton like growth on one of them, so I moved them back to the QT and began treating w/ Melafix. They all look great now and the growth has been reduced to a brownish flake looking thing that looks like its about to drop off.
When I picked up the YT, he had been sharing a tank w/ a Lion at the lfs for 3 weeks and they wanted to get rid of it for a good price. I bit the bullet and dropped him in my display rather than my QT when I got him home because my QT wasn't quite done cycling yet. 14 days later (2 days ago) I noticed a white spec on the YT by his pectoral fin, so I'm thinking that I have ich. So I plan to move the YT to the QT and begin an 8 week hypo regimen. This will allow the main system to go fallow and will treat all 4 fish for ich even though the clowns and damsel all look fine now (except for the flake thing on the 1 clown).
Does this seem like to correct course of action or should I continue to observe the YT in the display to see if things get worse? Should I even bother with hypo in the QT housing just the clowns and damsel. Btw, the damsel is never going into the display, just the clowns.
Also, when doing my water changes in the QT, can I just dilute water from the display down to 1.009 or will I likely just keep re-introducing ich for the first 6 weeks into the QT (assuming I have ich in the display at the moment)?
My gut tells me to move the YT to the QT and let the display go fallow for 8 weeks while putting all 4 fish in the QT through hypo. At least my QT is fully cycled, and I also plan to add an auto-top off to aid in maintaining proper sg.
A quick timeline of my situation to date:
6/1 400g system goes online
6/24 55g QT goes online w/ 2 clowns
7/15 moved clowns to display
7/15 added yellow tail damsel to QT
7/17 moved clowns back to QT
7/17 added yellow tang to display
To date both systems have been maintained at 1.026. I moved the clowns to the display after 3 weeks of them looking as healthy as could be. After 3 days I noticed a cotton like growth on one of them, so I moved them back to the QT and began treating w/ Melafix. They all look great now and the growth has been reduced to a brownish flake looking thing that looks like its about to drop off.
When I picked up the YT, he had been sharing a tank w/ a Lion at the lfs for 3 weeks and they wanted to get rid of it for a good price. I bit the bullet and dropped him in my display rather than my QT when I got him home because my QT wasn't quite done cycling yet. 14 days later (2 days ago) I noticed a white spec on the YT by his pectoral fin, so I'm thinking that I have ich. So I plan to move the YT to the QT and begin an 8 week hypo regimen. This will allow the main system to go fallow and will treat all 4 fish for ich even though the clowns and damsel all look fine now (except for the flake thing on the 1 clown).
Does this seem like to correct course of action or should I continue to observe the YT in the display to see if things get worse? Should I even bother with hypo in the QT housing just the clowns and damsel. Btw, the damsel is never going into the display, just the clowns.
Also, when doing my water changes in the QT, can I just dilute water from the display down to 1.009 or will I likely just keep re-introducing ich for the first 6 weeks into the QT (assuming I have ich in the display at the moment)?
My gut tells me to move the YT to the QT and let the display go fallow for 8 weeks while putting all 4 fish in the QT through hypo. At least my QT is fully cycled, and I also plan to add an auto-top off to aid in maintaining proper sg.
Triggerfish
Active member
Peter-
i'll try to assist you here as best as i could assimilate your situation.
1. get the yellow tang out quickly. it may or may not be ich, but regardless the fish needs a 6 week quarantine period anyway. treat the fish with hypo and do not add to display until 6 weeks after the last spot is noticed.
2. i would not treat the clowns for ich,,once they look good add them back to the display and just observe them..looking for signs of the parasite..it will be 6 weeks anyway before you could add a quarantine fish in there anyway..this will allow you to see if the tang contaminated the tank.
it's possible that: 1. the tang does not have ich 2. if it does the parasite did not have a chance to release from the infected fish and infest the tank prior to its removal(not sure how likely that is).
3. yes,,you should use main tank water when doing changes in a tank that is undergoing hypo,,just dilute to match QT. i would not add it to a non-treated tank.just to be safe.
4. i take it you may be using the damsel to keep the QT cycle going..that's what i plan to do and think it's a good idea.
just be sure to quarantine all newcomers for 6 weeks. part of that could be with a preventive treatment, copper or hypo.
5. if the clowns show signs of the parasite, remove and leave tank fallow for 8 weeks.
btw: nice size system... good luck
i'll try to assist you here as best as i could assimilate your situation.
1. get the yellow tang out quickly. it may or may not be ich, but regardless the fish needs a 6 week quarantine period anyway. treat the fish with hypo and do not add to display until 6 weeks after the last spot is noticed.
2. i would not treat the clowns for ich,,once they look good add them back to the display and just observe them..looking for signs of the parasite..it will be 6 weeks anyway before you could add a quarantine fish in there anyway..this will allow you to see if the tang contaminated the tank.
it's possible that: 1. the tang does not have ich 2. if it does the parasite did not have a chance to release from the infected fish and infest the tank prior to its removal(not sure how likely that is).
3. yes,,you should use main tank water when doing changes in a tank that is undergoing hypo,,just dilute to match QT. i would not add it to a non-treated tank.just to be safe.
4. i take it you may be using the damsel to keep the QT cycle going..that's what i plan to do and think it's a good idea.
just be sure to quarantine all newcomers for 6 weeks. part of that could be with a preventive treatment, copper or hypo.
5. if the clowns show signs of the parasite, remove and leave tank fallow for 8 weeks.
btw: nice size system... good luck
To keep a quarantine going, I would add a VERY SLOW drip of pure ammonia rather than housing a damsel (or keep media in the sump of the display and set up the QT only when needed). My thought on that is - in addition to exposing the damsel to illness and treatment over and over; they tend to be very mean and territorial and will likely harrass any new fish you add to the QT. Also, if you move them to the display when you add new fish to the QT, you'll probably never catch them later.
pclausen
New member
I will attempt to move him into the QT tank tonight for a 6-8 week stay.
So I should:
1. Catch the clowns and put them in a bucket
2. Catch the yellow tang and put him in the QT
3. Release the clowns into the display
4. Begin hypo treatment on the tang
5. Observe the clowns
If the clowns do end up with ich, then I'm faced with what to do with them since the tang will already be undergoing hypo in the QT. I can't just drop the clowns in there and start my 6 week clock over can I? Would it not be better to just put all 4 fish through hypo treatment? Right now I don't know that any of my fish have ich, but the tang is very suspect.
Ok, so even if there is ich in the display at the moment, any parasites will be killed instantly as the sg is lowered to 1.009 prior to being added to the QT?
Yes, I took me a while for the QT to cycle. Clowns must be quite hardy although I never allowed ammonia to get above .5. I didn't want to add the tang until the QT was stable, but I was faced with a one time offer at the lfs.
But if they do show signs, I would not have a place to put them since my QT would be in the middle of a hypo session already, or?
Triggerfish
Active member
if setting up a Quarantine tank (only) you could use the damsel (only yellow tailed recommended). However, i agree if the tank will be used as a hospital tank as well then yes,,putting the damsel repeatedly through treatments would not be ideal. - good point.
Also, putting a new fish (small variety) into a small, relatively bare quarantine tank with an established Damsel (even Yellow Tail) will very like end with the death or at least severe stressing/harrassment of the new fish.
Yellow Tangs can also be territorial. Since you are adding Damsels (including Clownfish), you may be okay adding them after the Yellow Tang. However, you should read up on stocking order if you plan on adding other fish in the future - you are starting off with some pretty territorial ones.
I do think you are right, if you add the clowns back and they get ich and you only have the option of the one QT, it would be a problem. The safest thing to do for the tank would be to put all the fish through QT before adding (and while doing so let the tank go fallow for at least 8 weeks). That does not mean you have to start hypo immediately if you have no ich. I would watch them closely in the QT to see if they have ich first (although some do hypo as a precaution - it can be stressful to both the fish and you). If they don't have ich, you could just keep them in QT and watch closely to make sure they are clean while the tank fallows.
If you put the clowns back in and the main tank had ich, they could either get ich or serve as a host to keep ich alive in your tank. Painful as the QT process is, you can observe the fish for any signs better in a small tank. Having the main tank fallow to start is about the only way to make absolutely sure it is clean.
Option 2 (if it were me) would be to watch the Yellow Tang really, REALLY closely before adding anything to see if it is not ich. If it is just a spec (and is not rubbing against rocks but never getting it off), it may not be ich. If you are convinced there is no ich, you could then add the other fish at that time. Worst case, you will have to remove them all to QT for treatment and fallow the tank at that time; if your observations were wrong and they do end up getting ich.
Also, be sure to give them at least some PVC to hide in while in QT (maybe an artificial plant or two as well).
Best of luck!
Yellow Tangs can also be territorial. Since you are adding Damsels (including Clownfish), you may be okay adding them after the Yellow Tang. However, you should read up on stocking order if you plan on adding other fish in the future - you are starting off with some pretty territorial ones.
I do think you are right, if you add the clowns back and they get ich and you only have the option of the one QT, it would be a problem. The safest thing to do for the tank would be to put all the fish through QT before adding (and while doing so let the tank go fallow for at least 8 weeks). That does not mean you have to start hypo immediately if you have no ich. I would watch them closely in the QT to see if they have ich first (although some do hypo as a precaution - it can be stressful to both the fish and you). If they don't have ich, you could just keep them in QT and watch closely to make sure they are clean while the tank fallows.
If you put the clowns back in and the main tank had ich, they could either get ich or serve as a host to keep ich alive in your tank. Painful as the QT process is, you can observe the fish for any signs better in a small tank. Having the main tank fallow to start is about the only way to make absolutely sure it is clean.
Option 2 (if it were me) would be to watch the Yellow Tang really, REALLY closely before adding anything to see if it is not ich. If it is just a spec (and is not rubbing against rocks but never getting it off), it may not be ich. If you are convinced there is no ich, you could then add the other fish at that time. Worst case, you will have to remove them all to QT for treatment and fallow the tank at that time; if your observations were wrong and they do end up getting ich.
Also, be sure to give them at least some PVC to hide in while in QT (maybe an artificial plant or two as well).
Best of luck!
pclausen
New member
Thanks guys. I'll watch the yellow tang very closely to see if his issue gets better or not. I mean, its been 2+ weeks so far (plus 3 weeks at the lfs) and all I have seen is that one tiny speck. His color is vivid and he eats like a horse. So do the clowns.
I know that I should have waited and added the tang last, but it was an impulse buy and I had my eye on him for 3 weeks and when the lfs offered him to me at a bargain, I just had to do it. I just couldn't stand staring at an empty 180g tank any longer.
Since my tang appear so happy and healthy right now, I'd hate to put him through hypo unnecessarily and have him barely make it and come out all pale and bony with a brown face as was mentioned here. I'll keep my fingers crossed that he's ok, but I'll still see if I can get him over into the QT tank to continue the observation there.
So a 6 week QT without hypo/copper will still ensure the fish are ich free, assuming I never saw any parasites in the first place? If not, then I might as well do the hypo since I'll be leaving the main tank fallow for 8 weeks. Decisions, decisions...
I know that I should have waited and added the tang last, but it was an impulse buy and I had my eye on him for 3 weeks and when the lfs offered him to me at a bargain, I just had to do it. I just couldn't stand staring at an empty 180g tank any longer.
Since my tang appear so happy and healthy right now, I'd hate to put him through hypo unnecessarily and have him barely make it and come out all pale and bony with a brown face as was mentioned here. I'll keep my fingers crossed that he's ok, but I'll still see if I can get him over into the QT tank to continue the observation there.
So a 6 week QT without hypo/copper will still ensure the fish are ich free, assuming I never saw any parasites in the first place? If not, then I might as well do the hypo since I'll be leaving the main tank fallow for 8 weeks. Decisions, decisions...
Triggerfish
Active member
plaz said:
it's not "either or" it's both, if the fish get ich then they are a host, if they are a host then they have ich.
you could use your new main tank as a quarantine, that is what you basically are doing when adding a new fish and observing. but why bother taking the chance of ever introducing this thing in there??
i was confused thinking you had 2 QT. you state that:
6/24 55g QT goes online w/ 2 clowns
and then you stated that on 7/17 my QT wasn't quite done cycling yet.????
if the clowns look ok i would add them to the main tank and remove the suspect yellow tang. if you maintain decent water, not sure why the fish would "barely make it and come out all pale and bony with a brown face" unless something was screwed up.
in fact, you do not even need to treat the fish in the QT, just observe.
yes, if the fish shows no sign of parasites within the 6 weeks and is behaving normally, eating well, ect..it should be good to go.
believe me,, i "F'd up all over the place and now believe there are 3 ways for ME to do things:
1. the right way
2. the wrong way
3. the "hope i get lucky" way
Hi,
I'm suspecting the two butterflies in my 45G are infected with ich. My 45G is a fish only with live rock with 2 ocellaris clown, 1 cleaner shrimp, 1 saddled and 1 copperbaned butterfly, some snails and hermit.
After all i read in this thread i'm considering to try the hypo treatment in the 45G if the butterflies' condition get worse and I confirm that it is ich. However, like you all have said, hypo will be bad for my shrimp snails, hermit and live rocks. I have another 90G that is also fish only with live rock. If I move the live rocks, snails, hermit and shrimp to the 90G will they carry the ich with them and infect my 90G as well? i'm guess the live rock will definitlely brings the ich to my 90G but will the shrimp, snails and hermit be fine? Since I can put the live rocks in a huge garbage can i use for water change but I got no where to keep the shrimp and the others. Also, will the snails and hermit die during hypo too?
Thanks
I'm suspecting the two butterflies in my 45G are infected with ich. My 45G is a fish only with live rock with 2 ocellaris clown, 1 cleaner shrimp, 1 saddled and 1 copperbaned butterfly, some snails and hermit.
After all i read in this thread i'm considering to try the hypo treatment in the 45G if the butterflies' condition get worse and I confirm that it is ich. However, like you all have said, hypo will be bad for my shrimp snails, hermit and live rocks. I have another 90G that is also fish only with live rock. If I move the live rocks, snails, hermit and shrimp to the 90G will they carry the ich with them and infect my 90G as well? i'm guess the live rock will definitlely brings the ich to my 90G but will the shrimp, snails and hermit be fine? Since I can put the live rocks in a huge garbage can i use for water change but I got no where to keep the shrimp and the others. Also, will the snails and hermit die during hypo too?
Thanks
pclausen
New member
Sorry about the confusion trigger. Just one QT. I had the filter for it running on my main system sump for a week, then on 6/24 I put in on the QT and added the 2 clowns. By 7/17, it still hadn't fully cycled as I was still reading ammonia.
The condition of yellow tang coming out of hypo in poor condition was posted a few pages back by tjay:
At any rate, the clowns have been in my care for 5 weeks now, so I'll go another week and then move them to the main tank contingent on the condition of the yellow tang at that point.
The condition of yellow tang coming out of hypo in poor condition was posted a few pages back by tjay:
At any rate, the clowns have been in my care for 5 weeks now, so I'll go another week and then move them to the main tank contingent on the condition of the yellow tang at that point.
Triggerfish
Active member
seek19 said:
if ich is there then the whole system can become contaminated. anything you transfer could be carried over.
from what i have read,,most if not all inverts, will perish under very low sg conditions.
fc.pride
New member
in the process of qt. i had a question...
im using cupramine on 2 clowns, blue and yelow tang. im gonna use per seachem at .5 for 21 days. (they recommend 14 but i've read 21 is safer) now, my main is going to be fallow for 7 weeks, what about the copper in the qt, do i do water changes to remove it slowly or leave the copper in there? long term copper is bad? i think... also will the fish be worse off because of this qt in cupramine?
ive found it is very difficult to qt corals due to lighting restraints... but willl a coral disinfectant remove ich?
thanks to all who replied, i appreciate it.
im using cupramine on 2 clowns, blue and yelow tang. im gonna use per seachem at .5 for 21 days. (they recommend 14 but i've read 21 is safer) now, my main is going to be fallow for 7 weeks, what about the copper in the qt, do i do water changes to remove it slowly or leave the copper in there? long term copper is bad? i think... also will the fish be worse off because of this qt in cupramine?
ive found it is very difficult to qt corals due to lighting restraints... but willl a coral disinfectant remove ich?
thanks to all who replied, i appreciate it.
fc.pride,
Why are you treating with copper? The most likely disease wild-caught (and some tank raised) clowns suffer from is Brooklynella. They should be prophylactically treated for that. And that is not treated with copper.
See this reference where, near the end he speaks on this subject:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/sp/feature/index.htm
Why are you treating with copper? The most likely disease wild-caught (and some tank raised) clowns suffer from is Brooklynella. They should be prophylactically treated for that. And that is not treated with copper.
See this reference where, near the end he speaks on this subject:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/sp/feature/index.htm
Triggerfish
Active member
i'm thinking that b/c he is leaving the main "fallow" for 7 weeks that he removed the fish due to an outbreak?? and has chosen copper for treatment..
i agree that 3 week treatment is probably best - (what i am doing now)
after the 3 weeks you can just use carbon to remove most of the copper.
worse off? it depends,,how were they before?
i think most corals will be fine for 4-5 weeks with regular pc lighting.
if you are getting inverts from a system that contained fish, then it is best to quarantine them for at least 4 weeks in a non-fish QT. or you could by inverts only from systems that do not contain fish..
also, if you can..try to stretch the fallow time to 8 weeks...
i agree that 3 week treatment is probably best - (what i am doing now)
after the 3 weeks you can just use carbon to remove most of the copper.
worse off? it depends,,how were they before?
i think most corals will be fine for 4-5 weeks with regular pc lighting.
if you are getting inverts from a system that contained fish, then it is best to quarantine them for at least 4 weeks in a non-fish QT. or you could by inverts only from systems that do not contain fish..
also, if you can..try to stretch the fallow time to 8 weeks...
pclausen
New member
Thanks for chiming in tjay. Here is a shot of my yellow tang that I just took that shows his suspicious white spot. Like I said, he's as happy as can be and eats like a horse. I'd hate to put him through the stress of catching him and doing the whole hypo thing unless it is warranted. I'll keep an eye on him and if this one spot slowly goes away and no other appears, I'd rather leave him be. As the sole fish on my main system at the moment, I suppose that I can just leave him where he's at for 6 weeks once this single speck (fingers crossed) goes away and be safe?
tjay
Premium Member
Ok that spot alone would not send me into ich panic.
If you will look back in this thread you will see a pic of our Naso tang that has a very similar spot. It turned out not to be ich.
I believe leebca said it might be a lymph or something.
How long has it been there? the parasite stays on for about 2 to 9 days if my memory serves. ours was on the fish for almost two weeks.
If you will look back in this thread you will see a pic of our Naso tang that has a very similar spot. It turned out not to be ich.
I believe leebca said it might be a lymph or something.
How long has it been there? the parasite stays on for about 2 to 9 days if my memory serves. ours was on the fish for almost two weeks.
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