"ICH FREE TANK" Quest Begins

[Triggerfish]

good to hear...i sure do hope the copper i used (seacure) was as effective as the cupramine you used...again i haven't seen the ich during the 3 week treatment.
i just hope the 8 weeks fallow time kills it all off.

 

[cduran02]

Well, the way I see it, copper is copper, it comes in two forms chealated (sp?) and non-chealated. And they both work but at different concentrations. Differences between brands should be minimal, unless the brand is being dishonest about the concentration listed on the bottle.

 

[Triggerfish]

On a side note

in much need of a 2nd job,,i am starting at Petco tonight...
should be interesting when i get the 1st ich related customer inquiry.
the store does not stock supplies for either of the proven remedies:
copper
copper test kits
refractometers

at least i could tell them what to get and where to get them...

 

[markcasto]

My 4 green/blue chromis are not recovering they are looking very poorly and I think it would be kinder to put them in the freezer I have tried everything to cure them but nothing is working and they are too far gone now to save.I plan to empty all my QT tanks out and disinfect them all with bleach then just leave the 20 gallon and the ten ready for any emergencys and future stock.This whole process has been very demanding in time and fish loss but I sure as hell wont let anything in my main tank again with out QT for 6 weeks.Thanks for everthing guys and good luck triggerfish this is mark signing off for now.

 

[Triggerfish]

perhaps if the fish are no longer interested in feeding it could be the beginning of their demise,,,a quick method, if it comes down to it, is to put them in a small bowl add about 5 alkaseltzer tablets that will remove all the oxygen in seconds..

talk to ya later....

 

[seek19]

i've just finished the lowering of SG for the hypo but I'm feeling more and more convice that my fishes are actually infected with Amyloodinium ocellatum(Oodinium) instead of ich. I can't be sure but the spot doesn't looks like ich since it is not as big as the usual ich spots i saw and this time these spots have irregular shapes.

Few nights ago i lost the copperband butterfly. i saw it gasping for air at the surface and I put it in a freshwater bath with copper. That stopped the gasping but it died the other day.

Can hypo treat Amyloodinium ocellatum(Oodinium) too? Since it is also a parasite i'm hoping it can

 

[Triggerfish]

not to my knowledge no... Oodinium can kill fish within 3 days...ich can take weeks.

 

[AquAsylum]

Update- help!

Update- help!

We haven't had a whole lot of activity recently, just watching the QT time pass. Slowly. Unfortunately, bad news this morning. Before my update, just a few comments on what I've read over the last week or so.

MarkCasto- did you ever try Maroxy? It is the recommended treatment for a true fungal infection and I have used it in both FW and SW when a torn fin got a little bit fluffy.

Regarding the medicated food from Jungle Labs- I bought it when we started hypo. Fish wouldn't touch it. The pellets were too big, I think, plus they smelled like medicine. I think that is why the instructions say to feed it exclusively during the treatment. Given the option, the fish would probably always choose something else.

So, onto our new issue. I posted a separate thread in the forum, but everyone here is so smart I'm hoping you might have answers too!

This morning I noticed a fairly large bump on the side of our pink skunk clown. It seems dark underneath the skin/scales. I was actually able to do a search this morning and, pending more observation, I think it is most likely that this is a worm. I will try to keep an eye on him/her tonight to watch for stringy feces (how fun) or to see if the bump is opening up to release the bad guys. If no worm appears, any idea of what else might have caused this? In the back of my head, I know that it could be ich just having not surfaced yet, but it seems far too large to be ich.

I saw that the dog deworming medication is recommended, as is prazi. I can get prazi much more easily, so I am wondering if it is safe to treat the QT, or if I need to remove this poor little guy to an isolated tank. Also, how long is the treatment for such an infestation? I am already treating the tank with melafix and hypo, of course. About three weeks ago I ran a full treatment of paraguard. I really don't get how something new has managed to strike.

Thanks for any help...

 

[Triggerfish]

<font color=ff0000><font size=4>UPDATE </font></font>
Quarantine Period = Round 2: Week 4

Quarantine is starting over after ich has showed up again on 8/11 after completion of 3 week copper treatment. 1 spot niger, 1-2 possible spots on Angel, spots damsels- hard to detect,,but i got to go with it's ich and they were not there before.

QT#1:55g
I am really having a difficult time here trying to eradicate this thing. i'm thinking that i may just have to treat each fish individually in a smaller tank.
the copper level must not have been maintained at the proper dosage for the full 3 weeks.
seachem test kit is very hard to tell what copper level is at. It's like i need to triple the dosage of seacure to get it to even register.
think i need to get the cupramine to test with the seachem kit i have..the seacure copper uses the fasTesT kit which only comes with 20 tests..and it's even more money,i mean that's ridiculous.

Problem 1: not using copper(SeaCure) manufacturers test kit(fasTesT).<hr>
QT#2:10g - 2 false percs
well did something really really stupid here. i moved a BTA attached to rock from main infected tank to the 10g so the clowns could host the BTA. OMG..what the hell was i thinking?
now it looks like the female clown has some spots..you got to be kidding me..
so i removed the BTA and am now treating that tank with copper. there's no end in sight here...<hr>

<font size=4><u>SUMMARY</font></u>
1. QT-1: 7 fish need to go through additional 6 weeks of quarantine - Will begin 2nd attempt with hypo, possibly may need to treat in separate systems. will remove the blenny and gramma that do not show signs of parasites and place in separate system.

2. QT-2: 2 clownfish- became infected from infested ich rock. undergoing copper treatment now.
6 weeks remaining.

3. Will get Cupramine and begin treating with that to measure with seachem copper test kit.

That's it,,this sucks and that's all i got to say..

 

[Triggerfish]

Laura - doesn't sound like ich--maybe Lee will help out in disease forum...

 

[AquAsylum]

Trigger. Man, that sucks. Just when you think you're out, it strikes again! Really sorry you're having to start over.

I am hoping that Lee or Steven Pro or one of the other "in the know" members will have a suggestion for me.

 

[plaz]

Triggerman,
Sorry to hear of your troubles as well. Get a RedSea Copper test to use with Cupramine (I know Seachem is the same brand - but the test stinks... at least for measuring cupramine). I also tried Salifert and it will not work at all with Cupramine. Save yourself the headaches and get the cheaper RedSea Copper test!

 

[seek19]

Does anyone knows a good way to differentiate Oodinium and ich, besides the freshwater & copper dipping method from ATJ's Marine Aquarium Site? Because my fishes seem to be in much stress already and I really don't want to put them through all the netting and dipping right now. Also, I just lack the skill to take nice clear fish tank photo like some of you can. So I can't provide some pic of the fish as Triggerfish suggusted long ago.

My fishes has shown sign of spots for almost 2 weeks already and only gotten worse today after I finally lowered the salinity to 13ppt. But they are still alive. Since Triggerfish mentioned that Oodinium kill fish within days and ich takes weeks, does that mean they are most likely infected with ich?

Also, when i say they gotten worse after the salinity was lowered to 13ppt(in 2 days time), i mean really worse. They seem to be suffering from a bit of fin rot and there are "lines" hanging, or should i say attached, to their body, much like their body is decaying and its striping out of their body. The "line" thing seem to be more of a problem with the two ocellaris clown and the saddled butterfly seems to suffer more with fin rot. What can these all mean?

 

[plaz]

Have you checked your ammonia, nitrite and nitrates?

 

[seek19]

Have you checked your ammonia, nitrite and nitrates?

ammonia 0.25, nitrite 0, nitrate 10
Should I go get some of those ammonia remover? is there a nitrite remover? in case its the next one up.

 

[plaz]

Sounds like you are getting ready to start a cycle. I would do a good water change and then try to get bio-spira or one of the products Mark used (in earlier posts) and establish good biological filtration. You will of course need alot of filter media (ceramic and/or wheel, sponge, etc.). How large is your quarantine tank?

 

[seek19]

How large is your quarantine tank?

I'm treating in my 45G Display tank. I removed all the live rocks and invert

But what about the weird things happening with my fishes' body. Anyone know if that are signs of other disease?

 

[luntiz]

Re: "ICH FREE TANK" Quest Begins

i could just leave everything alone and hope that they could just continue to fight "them" off until the cells age and die within 11 months..BUT,,that sort of blows

Interesting information, I've never came across that info in my research about Ich. Sorry if its been addressed in the past 21 pages but if any can fill me in with that info, it'll be great.

 

[Triggerfish]

Re: Re: "ICH FREE TANK" Quest Begins

Re: Re: "ICH FREE TANK" Quest Begins

seek19 - not sure what to tell you. if the fish are looking real bad and breathing heavy i would give a FW bath or dip..then treat the tank with hypo(only if you have a refractometer) or copper with test kit.

if any can fill me in with that info, it'll be great.

link:
http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/marineich.html

quote:
"Burgess and Matthews (1994) were attempting to maintain a viable population of C. irritans which could be used in later studies. To maintain the parasite populations, they needed host fish in order for the trophonts to feed and continue the life cycle. Each host fish was only used once in a process of serial transition such that none of the hosts would die or develop an immunity. While the procedure worked very well and enabled them to maintain populations for some time, the viability of the populations decreased with time and none of the 7 isolates they used survived more than 34 cycles, around 10 to 11 months. They suggest this is due to senescence and aging in cell lines is well recognised in Ciliophora."

 

[plaz]

Seek19:
I don't know for sure either - but it sounds like water quality problems to me (especially the clowns). Ammonia and nitrites are really hard on some fish.

If you removed all the live rock, you need some kind of filter that has bacteria built up. The live rock was likely what was keeping everything in check (of course you had to remove it because it would have died and made matters worse - but you have to replace it with colonized filter media).

If there is any sand, etc. in the tank, die off may be making the cycle worse. Hopefully someone will chime in that knows more - but I would do some large water changes with matched salinity, temp and PH) to get the water quality back ASAP.

Good luck.