ich -freshwater dip ?

[deejeff442]

i just put my tank back together after the useless hypo treatment.
well ich came back 3 days after i raised the salt.
now my achilles and purple look bad with ich ,the achilles is just parked in front of the powerhead.
i added copper yesterday but dont think unless i do something he will make it.
i used cupramine copper.
i was thinking of a freshwater dip for the two tangs the other fish either have a little ich or none but the two tangs look bad.
has anyone ever tried a fwd and had the fish live?
that hypo is a crock.

 

[Jeff]

Freshwater dips do not cure ich and will usually stress the fish more then the parasite will. If the hypo treatment didnt work then you probably didnt do it coreectly based on the recommended regime. Hypo and copper are still, unfortunatly the only ways to rid your fish of the parasite and they work if done correctly IMO.

 

[deejeff442]

i did the hypo to a tee.
1.008-1.009 for 4 weeks after all the ich was gone from the fish.
i think because i have a shallow 1 inch sand bed it lays dorment untill the salt is raised.maybe it works on a bare bottom tank.
but, i have read a few posts of other people having the same issue.
the only reason i want to freshwater dip is because they are both really covered and i dont think they will make it before the copper starts working.
just never tried it before.
i figured it would relieve him some .

 

[Jeff]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15072004#post15072004 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by deejeff442
[B1.008-1.009 for 4 weeks after all the ich was gone from the fish.
i think because i have a shallow 1 inch sand bed it lays dorment untill the salt is raised. [/B]

I'm no expert with ich, but I think these two things caused you to be unsucessful in your hypo treatment.
The sucess rate for hypo used less then 6-8 weeks is low from what I have read and observed with my friend wolf pup who had to do the treatment twice. Once unsucessfully for 4 weeks and once sucessfully for 7-8 weeks. I have read a few other threads where the parasite has come back when the 4 week method is used. I also dont think any substrate should be used during the treatment and a seperate hospital tank wouldnt have any in it.
Maybe some members that have undergone the hypo treatment sucessfully can chime in with better opinions.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/s...did=1500214&highlight=hypo+treatment+ich+cure

 

[deejeff442]

well i got the how to on another forum which is supposed to be marine biologists.go figue and they said 3 weeks after no sign of ich on the fish.
8 weeks would be 2 life cycles for ich.
also said it can be done with a shallow sand bed.
i have some big fish and only had a 90 gallon i thought was too small for them.
so i put the rock in there instead.
it is a fowlr tank so i am not concerned about the copper once it is removed.
i just want to help the achilles he is 8 inches lonf and looks loaded with the ich but isnt breathing hard yet .i figure it would relieve the ich some in the fwd.
he ate 3 times yesterday .i usually only feed once a day but i added more zoe and garlic so he should still be strong.
i am filling up a 10 gallon tank right now with ro and put a heater and ph in there and will add buffer before i dip him.
i think i is his only chance ,the purple isnt as bad so i might wait on him.
you would think some genius would have come up with a good way to treat this stuff by now.
i havent had ich for over 10 yrs.brought it in on some new corals and from now on i will qt everything .

 

[Jeff]

Part of the life cycle of the parasite is transfering from sand/rock to fish and vice versa. That is the part of the cycle that needs to be broken by keeping the fish and sand/rock seperate. The parasite's life cycle is longer then you think with those hosts in place. Thats why the tank must remain fallow (completely fishless) for longer then the fish are infected. There are a lot of opinions on ich treatment and prevention but the only thing I have seen work other then copper is hyposalinity treatment with all of the fish and sand/rock completely sperated for longer then the life cycle of the parasite.

 

[DetectiveTofu]

How quickly was the SG raised again? If it is raised too quickly, this can stress all of your fish. I'd spend more time raising the SG back up, then I spent lowering to hypo-salinity.

 

[LargeAngels]

Like stated above FW dips do not work on ich so it will do nothing except stress them out. FW dips only works on velvet.

Sand bed will absorb the copper so daily testing of copper concentration is necessary.

 

[1geo]

Another think to consider is that your fish have some other parasite than Ich. For example, if your fish have Brooklynella then copper treatment will do them no good. Brook has to be treated with Formalin 37% baths. Formalin will also cure Ich. Get yourself some Formalin 37%. In one gallon of water put 1 cc of Formalin and put your fish in for 45 mins. Monitor carefully in case of extreme stress remove the fish. Make sure that the fish has no open wounds. Also, Formalin once mixed with water, evaporates in 2 hours, it is not accumulative. So once you mix, it must be used immediately. Make sure the PH and temperature of the bath is the same as the QT tank water you are keeping your fish in. Do not mix Formalin and copper unless the manufacturer says its OK. It is OK to go from a copper tank to the Formalin bath and back to the copper tank, just do not mix the water. Go to the following charts and see if it will help you isolate your problem http://www.fishvet.com/sw_parasite_chart.htm and http://www.fishvet.com/sw_bacterial_chart.htm

 

[1geo]

One more thing on Formalin, you must use a air stone in the bath water since Formalin reduces the oxygen in the water. You give one bath every other day for 10 days. That will cure your fish but it will not rid the tank they came out of. You must keep it fallow for eight weeks. The eggs of the Ich parasite can remain in the substrata for up to 8 weeks before they hatch into swimmers which must find a host fish or die. The Brook parasite multiplies by cell division and the new cell becomes a swimmer looking for a host. The Brook swimmers can persist up to 4 weeks without a host then they die. so 8 weeks is the minimum to keep your tank fish-less. The charts in my previous post will give you an idea on disease and treatment. Good luck.

 

[deejeff442]

thanks for the replys guys,
it is definitly ich.
i took 8 days to raise back the salinity.
my achilles yesterday looked pretty bad didnt think he would make it through the night.
i added the cupramine first half the other day and the second yesterday.
well went to look at them this morning and all were swimming .
turned on the light to feed them and look at them better.
my goldflake ,achilles ,bluethroat have a bunch on them still but looks like the purple and fowleri tang look better.
all ate good so i turned the light out again .
they have had it for 5 days now so it should be dropping off pretty soon and hopefully the copper with destroy it.

 

[1geo]

If its Ich you will have to keep them in the copper tank for 4 weeks and the tank they came out of will have to be fallow for 8 weeks. The copper will only distroy the swimming stag of the parasite. It will not kill those imbedded in the fish or the eggs in the substrata. It will kill those attached to the gills and give the fish quick relief. If the fish do NOT get relief and continue to get worse then they do not have Ich and you need to look at other parasites. Watch the fish dosely, if there is a film, slim, coming from the mouth or gills then they probably have Brook and Brook kills quickly.

 

[Triggerfish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15072139#post15072139 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by deejeff442
i havent had ich for over 10 yrs.brought it in on some new corals.

what kind of corals.