Ich (Host) Question??

[galaxyfe]

OK, don't shoot me, just trying to learn a few things here

with ich, if the fish is the host, and it's said if one has it they all have it, then what is the purpose of a QT if you have a FOWLR tank? The purpose is to get the fish out of the tank to completely eradicate the DT, but the tank isn't the host, and thus where I'm loosing the point.

I don't follow the logic...but I've read sooooo much info, I would be just as well off not have read anything as overwhelmed as I am right now with all the info that's out there.

I'm also gonna ask this again in hopes it'll be broken down into something I can understand....

What do you do with the fish once they're in the QT????

 

[wooden_reefer]

OK, don't shoot me, just trying to learn a few things here

with ich, if the fish is the host, and it's said if one has it they all have it, then what is the purpose of a QT if you have a FOWLR tank? The purpose is to get the fish out of the tank to completely eradicate the DT, but the tank isn't the host, and thus where I'm loosing the point.

I don't follow the logic...but I've read sooooo much info, I would be just as well off not have read anything as overwhelmed as I am right now with all the info that's out there.

I'm also gonna ask this again in hopes it'll be broken down into something I can understand....

What do you do with the fish once they're in the QT????

Actually this is a good question.

When all the fish at various stages of ich infestion are in QT, some of the ich will drop off and some will stay on a little longer. It is not sure how effective copper and hypo are on the ich still on the fish. It does not kill ich while it is still outside the fish when it is in division to form hundreds of infective agents.

It is possible to rid the fish of rch with the successive tank transfer method.

But since I don't know the starting point of each ich organism in the lifecycle, and the extent of effectiveness of copper and hypo at one short moment in time, I prefer to treat to eradicate ich for eight weeks.

You treat actively for fish in QT for eight weeks and allow the inverts to be fishless for eight weeks.

You QT better have cycled medium to rid the tank of ammonia for that duration.

 

[Gwynhidwy]

The main purpose of the separate tank for treatment is because the treatments that are effective against ich tend to kill other invertebrates too, which can quickly foul the water, and copper based treatments are difficult to administer properly in tanks with live rock and aragonite based sands. This is because the copper bonds to these materials and then is periodically released into the water again causing your copper levels to fluctuate.

Because ich is caused by a parasite that requires a fish host to live, removing the fish from the infected DT for eight weeks kills the parasite by essentially starving it out.

So the purpose of taking the fish out of the DT is twofold, no fish in the DT removes the parasite from the DT, and having the fish in a hospital tank allows you to treat them more safely and easily.

 

[galaxyfe]

So for a hospital QT, (as oposed to a new fish QT) couldn't you start the tank by using water from the DT to fill it that first time?? Now you don't have to worry about a cycle, correct?? Then just do large (50% or better) water changes after that??

Still searching for what the actual "treatment" is when they're in there? Haven't figured out exactly what "hydro" is just yet...lots of threads say do this but haven't found any that explain what it is.

Thanks for all your help everyone.

 

[Gwynhidwy]

The water from an established DT would be a big help, but it isn't the same as having a fully established biological filter like you do in DT. You would still need to keep an eye on ammonia.

There are three main treatments for ich, copper based medications, tank transfer method, and hyposalinity. With copper based medications you dose the water and keep the copper concentration in the water at a certain level for a certain period of time, time and concentration varies depending on the medication. Tank transfer involves moving the fish from one tank to a new tank, a lot of people use Rubbermaid containers for this, several times. Hyposalinity involves lowering the salinity of the water to 1.009 and keeping it there for 4+ weeks.

 

[wooden_reefer]

So for a hospital QT, (as oposed to a new fish QT) couldn't you start the tank by using water from the DT to fill it that first time?? Now you don't have to worry about a cycle, correct?? Then just do large (50% or better) water changes after that??

Still searching for what the actual "treatment" is when they're in there? Haven't figured out exactly what "hydro" is just yet...lots of threads say do this but haven't found any that explain what it is.

Thanks for all your help everyone.

Change water in QT is an ordeal that I don't want. It is never good to expose fish to any ammonia and to eliminate nearly all ammonia very frequent and great percentage (may be 100%) WC are required. I always cycle the medium for QT in advance and separately.


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If you are interested in a fish only tank and do not want the option of later turning it into a reef tank, for one instance your DT can also double as the QT.

For only one instance when the DT is still rather new in time. A robust cycle has been completed but no other growth on the LR has taken place yet. Say a couple of weeks after a robust cycle when nitrite has peak very well and then dropped to zero. You can consider the DT as a temp QT.

You cannot do so when there is already growth on the LR or you used collected LR to cycle and there is a lot of growth remaining.

You cannot do so if you plan to add corals later unless you use hypo only against ich, no copper.

 

[Frank789]

Quinine sulfate is another treatment worth considering. It worked very well for me on ich that was resistant to copper, hyposalinity, and metronizadole. See my post under Vendor Experiences.

 

[wooden_reefer]

So for a hospital QT, (as oposed to a new fish QT) couldn't you start the tank by using water from the DT to fill it that first time?? Now you don't have to worry about a cycle, correct?? Then just do large (50% or better) water changes after that??

You don't have to cycle at all if you will do 100% WC everyday.

Is this your question?

Well, the purpose of cycling is that you won't have to do large % water change often.

Just one instance of water change to remove some ammonia is not related to cycling, and won't help in QT that lasts eight weeks or longer.


The answer is that cycling the medium for QT is always virtually necessary because you then won't have to change water in QT often. This is how long duration of QT is practical, involves little work, and this promotes adherence to rigorous QT for long enough duration.