Ich in 2019

[nereefpat]

There are proven ways to kill marine ich....hypo, copper, chloroquine, TTM.
The problem is that the cures can't be administered in a reef tank.

Seems like I read something about "vaccine" (ich isn't a virus, so this isn't the right wording) for ich. One problem is that the cost of a vaccine wouldn't make sense economically, since the cost of a fish is relatively low.

 

[ClownReef®]

There are proven ways to kill marine ich....hypo, copper, chloroquine, TTM.
The problem is that the cures can't be administered in a reef tank.

Seems like I read something about "vaccine" (ich isn't a virus, so this isn't the right wording) for ich. One problem is that the cost of a vaccine wouldn't make sense economically, since the cost of a fish is relatively low.

I disagree. Imagine the hundreds of thousands of dollars on dead fish that could be saved.

The discrepancies about how long to leave a tank fallow, the levels of copper, how many hours in between TTM are too many. UV works, but it doesn't, but then it does.. Its just too much.

This is a parasite. A living thing that can be killed with proper levels of medication. A pellet with meds should do the trick.

 

[HumbleFish]

This is a parasite. A living thing that can be killed with proper levels of medication. A pellet with meds should do the trick.

It can be killed by chemicals/osmotic shock which is not safe to administer in the presence of corals/inverts. That's the whole problem.

Feeding the fish medicine has never been proven effective because it is an <b><i>external</b></i> parasite which lives most of it's life cycle off fish. So, if the tank is infected the fish will just continue to get reinfected. When you dose copper or use hypo in a QT it provides no direct benefit to the fish... you are treating the tank, not the fish. The presence of copper/hypo simply prevents the fish from being reinfected after the first wave of parasites have dropped off.

 

[nereefpat]

I disagree. Imagine the hundreds of thousands of dollars on dead fish that could be saved.

You would have to "vaccinate" every fish. How much would a "vaccine" cost? How much does a yellow tang cost?

 

[ThRoewer]

Healthy well fed fish living in a stable reef system with low stress defeats ick!

No drugs required!

Precisely!
I had tanks in which the fish were all healthy and happy despite the fact that Cryptocaryon was present. The immune system of the fish was well capable of keeping the parasite at bay and without new additions for about a year it actually died out.
Most people who constantly struggle with ick in their display tanks have too many or incompatible fish who stress each other. And stress weakens the immune system which then gives the parasite an opening.
Even if there is an outbreak, Cryptocaryon usually gives you plenty of time to react and cleaning fish of it is pretty easy with TTM, hyposalinity, even copper.
A good quarantine is still needed, not just for ick but more importantly against the truly dangerous parasites that might not give you enough time to react, are far more difficult to treat, or which can't be purged from a system without completely sterilizing it.

As for no research done on Cryptocaryon - I bet there is still plenty going on since it is far more problematic in commercial fish farms where is isn't really possible to keep the fish stress free.

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[ThRoewer]

You would have to "vaccinate" every fish. How much would a "vaccine" cost? How much does a yellow tang cost?

Vaccinations against other diseases are already standard procedure in commercial fish farming. The benefits clearly outweigh the cost there which may not necessarily be the case with wild caught ornamental fish that suffer not just from infections but on top of that have to adjust to new foods in less than stellar environments.

But otherwise fit and healthy fish can be immunized without vaccinations. All you have to do is to infect the fish and then clean it up. After a short recovery period of a couple of weeks, if the fish is otherwise healthy and not stressed, the fish's immune system will have learned to keep the parasite at bay. This "trained" immunity will last as long as the fish is exposed to low counts of the parasite. If the parasite is gone for good the immunity may fade within a few months.
This actually works for a number of obligate parasites and not just Cryptocaryon. Though with other parasites I would not take any risks.

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[pledosophy]

You can not vaccinate against a parasite and not have it affect the host.

TTM is not hard. QT and hypo are not hard. We already have the answers. Not everything in life is immediate. Tanks teach patience.

 

[hkgar]

You can not vaccinate against a parasite and not have it affect the host.

TTM is not hard. QT and hypo are not hard. We already have the answers. Not everything in life is immediate. Tanks teach patience.

Ya, yes. My two rules for effective reefing
1. Take everything slowly, nothing good happens quickly.
2. Take everything slower than you thought I meant in rule 1.

 

[saf1]

Cure, is, is not the question. The question is more around the supply chain and what a good practice is getting the animals successfully, and with the least amount of stress, to the retailer or home. Crack that nut and your survival rate increases many times over. Time is money and fish at the collector source is a commodity thus no interest to address the issue. Cheaper to catch and ship more fish than putting time, energy, and other resources (money) to properly care for and ship the fish. Thus why treating corals and fish that we can bred more as a crop or aqua culture and become self reliant while providing healthier creatures while helping Mother Nature.

This is always a hot topic but the onus really is on the hobbyist to provide a system capable of sustaining the animal. The system or environment is also the procedures to introduce new animals. Those that do have a higher success rate vs. those that simply do not know or care. Sort of like playing Russian roulette with a semi-automatic pistol...

Think of it this way. Have you ever traveled on a subway in a different country? Airplane long distance? Train across the alps? Point is the tin can you are sitting in with the other 380 people may or may not be vaccinated and/or have a cold that your system may have not seen. How do you feel after that long distance journey? Or how about eating or drinking the local water when you come from a different country? How does your system handle that food or water?

Preventative measures a plenty but we has a hobbyist need to find what works for us best. Others may not approve but if you have something it is better than nothing. Be it treating with chemicals, food, or other. What is wrong most of us can agree on is ignorance.

 

[ThRoewer]

In regards to the supply chain, it's best to get the fish as quickly as possible out of there.
Not just because of diseases, but even more so because there the fish rarely get the attention they need.

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