ich or amyloodinium -pics

Flighty

Flighty

Premium Member
One of my female pink skunks has come down with something bad. Can anyone help me with the id and some overnight emergancy treatment?

I have had her for 6 months, but added some rock, a goby and pistol shrimp to her tank recently which could have brought in an issue since I didn't QT them.

Her symptoms have been an increasing number of white spots ever night with few visible durring the day. Tonight she is severely covered in dust of white spots. She is breathing much more rapidly than normal and her activity is decreased.

This afternoon I gave her a 10 min low salinity dip with no effect.

Her mate has been in the same tank the whole time and shows no symptoms.

With flash- click for bigger
<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/FlightyMail/ClownDisease/photo#5010082037596313474"><img src="http://lh3.google.com/image/FlightyMail/RYdjEZJ-V4I/AAAAAAAACVg/34gNvQTnhb0/s288/DSC04461.JPG"></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:66%; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/FlightyMail/ClownDisease">clown disease</a></td></tr></table>

A little less clear without flash, but the spots show up better.
<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/FlightyMail/ClownDisease/photo#5010082041891280786"><img src="http://lh4.google.com/image/FlightyMail/RYdjEpJ-V5I/AAAAAAAACVo/z_FkHMMDYko/s288/DSC04464.JPG"></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:66%; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/FlightyMail/ClownDisease">clown disease</a></td></tr></table>
 
One more pic. I'm guessing it it ich and have started a hyposalinity regamin for her. Four to one tank water to rodi to start out and I'll drop it over a few days to 1.009 for 4 weeks at least. Tonight I just have her in a "floating hospital" in the display and will work on getting a bigger hospital ready to house all three fish.

Here is another pic of her. She is in the QT bucket and you see her mate and anemone through it.
<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/FlightyMail/ClownDisease/photo#5010095682707412898"><img src="http://lh4.google.com/image/FlightyMail/RYdvepJ-V6I/AAAAAAAACVw/rAIxnWsTAdQ/s288/DSC04480.JPG"></a>

Any pointers would be greatly apreciated. I have never done a hypo treatment and hope I can get her through this alive.

Looking at this pic makes me wonder if she woudl be more likely to survive if I can keep her in familiar surroundings like this rather than going to a full size QT tank.

Feeding in Hypo should be regular diet or restricted?
 
Read here: http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/hyposalinity.html

Just watch PH, Ammonia, and have water changes ready. I would feed sparingly, and syphon out the excess and detritus. I would also leave the tank fallow and perform hypo for at least six weeks. Don't forget that even as the ich seems to disappear, it is still present. It has a stage of it's life where it is on substrate, rocks, etc, so can easily be brought in with inverts, corals..
Good luck!
 
Low salinity dips will not help. Freshwater baths of at least 15 minutes - preferably 30 minutes may dislodge some parasites. Unfortunately less than 15 minutes is of little use as these spots are the parasite embedded in the skin/mucous of the fish and are "protected".

I recommend the display tank being fallow for at least 6 weeks. I do not recommend treating the display tank with hyposalinity or copper as both will affect inverts, corals and the microfauna of the rock and substrate. These should only performed in a separate QT .
 
looks more like oodinium to me.. hypo will not work..go with the copper treatment to be certain.
btw..awesome looking anemone you got there...
 
Triggerfish- The anemone in the pics is just a green tipped brown BTA. You are welcome to a split next meeting :)

I really want to nail the id down before resorting to a copper treatment. I am hoping to get this gal and her mate to spawn and see what an onyx X pink skunk looks like.

Anyone know of a resource for IDing it with a microscope? I know how to scrape a sample (in theory at least), but need to know what I'm looking at.
 
Cool- thanks for the link. Does the white dust at the bottom of the QT tank give any id help?
<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/FlightyMail/ClownDisease/photo#5010320150583203778"><img src="http://lh4.google.com/image/FlightyMail/RYg7oZJ-V8I/AAAAAAAACWE/DTTSBbAYDNM/s288/DSC04481.JPG"></a>

They are moving, and from the ammount of them after one night I'm assuming it must be the parrisite itself. Can I Id it just from seeing what kills those or by the fact that they are there on the bottom of the container?

Infested female looks well today. I was really thinking she had a slim chance of making it through the night, so that is great news for me. Male still shows no symptoms at all. If it is indeed amyooodinum (whatever :) ) wouldn't the male already show signs?

Another interesting note is that the female was purchased from a tank with other WC clowns that had something that looked like this disease six months ago, but never showed symptoms herself throughout a 5 week QT at regular salinity. That was saveral months ago.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8785668#post8785668 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Flighty

They are moving, and from the ammount of them after one night I'm assuming it must be the parrisite itself. If it is indeed amyooodinum (whatever :) ) wouldn't the male already show signs?
Click to expand...

that's very odd..can you get a close up of whatever is accumulating there?
since these things are microscopic,,it's unlikely you would actually see them walking around the tank bottom. :D

typically the parasite would be more widespread..very odd the other fish has no symptoms.
 
I'll try looking at it under magnification, but I think they are too small to get any meaningful pics of.
 
Well, I uploaded a bunch of shots to the album, but you can't get much other than white dots much smaller than sugar. You'll see a pod in the foreground for size reference. They crawl in ifferent directions past each other, deffinately not current.

Use the magnify tool on the site to zoom in. The dot that has the red of the shrimp tail in the background is three of them together.

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/FlightyMail/ClownDisease/photo#5010330836461836306"><img src="http://lh4.google.com/image/FlightyMail/RYhFWZJ-WBI/AAAAAAAACWs/GsgFpmsfSDQ/s288/DSC04492.JPG"></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:66%; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/FlightyMail/ClownDisease">clown disease</a></td></tr></table>
 
how much have you already lowered the salinity??? i would start it back up and dose some Cupramine once it gets around 1.021.don't raise it too quickly though....also, you don't want to combine hypo and copper...the lack of chemistry in the hypo water will allow the ph to fluctuate too much..if the ph gets low, it could turn into a toxic soup!!
 
The salinity is at 1.010 now. Yesterday I got all of those white critters out but at night they were visible on the fish again (must have come from a juvinile stage under the skin) Now this morning there are thousands of them in the Hypo vessle. They are moving crawling around the bottom, and will launch themselves into the water colum and swim. They are not easy to siphon up once they are on the bottom. You have to scrape the tip of the tubing on the bottom to dislodge them. If you flip through the photos you see them moving. Aren't they too big to be ich or oodinium?

I want to get an ID before doing something different. They poor clown is on her last legs.

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/FlightyMail/ClownDisease/photo#5010614274238601378"><img src="http://lh6.google.com/image/FlightyMail/RYlHIpJ-WKI/AAAAAAAACX8/8box1YIfdeI/s288/DSC04501.JPG"></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:66%; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/FlightyMail/ClownDisease">clown disease</a></td></tr></table>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/FlightyMail/ClownDisease/photo#5010614278533568690"><img src="http://lh3.google.com/image/FlightyMail/RYlHI5J-WLI/AAAAAAAACYE/pJUXgs6BwaM/s288/DSC04502.JPG"></a>
 
only thing i can really come up with here is that possibly it could be some type of anchor worm..like a mass implosion of them.
too bad someone else with more knowledge doesn't have an idea, as this is most interesting.

couldn't get your photos to load. if you have something close up and clear post it.
 
Are any of the photos working? You should be able to click them and get to my google photo album and zoom in.
 
After being at 1.010 for an hour, I don't see any moving any more and they don't seem to be stuck to the bottom now, so I would assume the hypo has killed the ones outside of her body. Just keep your fingers crossed for her. I am posting a little video to the google photo site of her and the white dots. I really can't get better clear shots. I may try to go to my vet's office and look at them under magnification today.
EDIT: Looking closer, many are still alive. Arrrrg!

Last "pic" is a video
<div style="text-align:center;width:194px;font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:83%"><div style="height:194px;background:url(http://picasaweb.google.com/f/img/transparent_album_background.gif) no-repeat left"><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/FlightyMail/ClownDisease"><img src="http://lh5.google.com/image/FlightyMail/RYdjEJJ-V3E/AAAAAAAACYs/Z8PxMYlC1wc/s160-c/ClownDisease.jpg" width="160" height="160" style="border:none;padding:0px;margin-top:16px;"></a></div><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/FlightyMail/ClownDisease"><div style="color:#4D4D4D;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none;">clown disease</div></a><div style="color:#808080"></div></div>
 
it is clearly not C. irritans..i would either start raising the salinity back up and then dose with copper..if its gills are infested, it is just going to get worse
 
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