ich or velvet

avandss

avandss

I'm hooked
Hey Guys, i have a little case of ich or velvet show up during my qt process and need some help

40g long breeder
1x blue hippo
1x blond naso

the qt tank was fully cycled (seeded sponge from my DT)
i did 3 days of observation
10 days 2 dose of prazi
then i did a 30% water change
did copper (i does over 3 days not 2)

initially they did not eat nori, mysis only, after a few days they started pigging out on nori

i feed them 1 sheet a day

i do daily copper tests to make sure my levels are good
little note on copper, initially i used the .5 sample agent to compare to mine and it seemed the .5 sample was more .6 (i have been keeping it in the .6 levels) or same as the copper sample

final copper level was aug 3rd

now i do not do wc often since my ammonia is almost 0 (i clean the filter sponge once a week with tank water) ever 10-15 days i do a 30wc

blond nasso has not shown any signs of ANYTHING and is perfectly 100% healthy and active

the hippo started showing signs at the end of prazi, when i started copper after a few days it actually got worst, i suspect velvet because if you looked at her from an angle it looked like a little film was on her, its been almost 10 days and its starting to look better but not 100%, and i am getting a little worried by now

any suggestions?







 
Couple of things: Did you dose copper while there was still Prazi in the water? Some people have reported their fish are not reacting to that very well 2. You said you did 2 doses of Prazi then did a water change. Did you do a water change in between doses? 3. Copper is a treatment for velvet. So if this is velvet it should be helping. Copper can interfere will the biological filter so there may be ammonia. IME those badges are not always accurate.
Did you get the tang from an LFS? If so do you know if they run low levels of copper in their system? I ask because it looks like you had the fish for nearly 2 weeks without running copper. I would think that if this is velvet not only would the tang have shown symptoms he would be much worse off than he is. If it were me I would do a water change to reduce the Prazi and, if there is any, ammonia. Then reassess the fish and treat.
 
the blue hippos comes from a lfs that had it in a mixed tank in corals and invertebrates, the blond is straight from the ocean, the lfs did not even open the bag, i showed up the same day and got it for a steal

after prazi i did a quick 30%, not a full water change, i figure prazi is no longer effective after 5 days + 30%wc

i got worried a few days ago and i did do a 40% wc and re adjusted the copper, i do see a slight improvement but its still on her skin

one point to add, she keeps rubbing herself on the pvc pipe
 
You can add a hand size live rock in the QT. they need to rub off the slime or spot. Trying feeding DR g food versus chemical treatment...
 
blackcell said:
You can add a hand size live rock in the QT. they need to rub off the slime or spot. Trying feeding DR g food versus chemical treatment...
Click to expand...

I disagree. If this is a parasite, giving the fish something to rub on won't eliminate it. I have not seen any evidence that Dr. G's food does anything for disease.

Frankly, this looks more like brooklynella than either crypto or velvet - spots are diffuse vs appearing like salt (crypto) or a golden sheen (velvet). Recommend reading the stickies at the top of this forum for treatment options.
 
thank you for all the help, i did read all the stickies, again i am trying to do everything right without any experience. all i can do is read and try to figure this out.

ok so i now see how this could be brook, and that is very bad news since i can absolutely not get formalin in canada, it is 100% illegal and customs will actually burn it and flag me if i try to import it apparently.

here is where i need some advice, based on this info i think the best course would be to euthanize the hippo before he suffers more and ends up dead, however my blond naso has shown no signs of anything, if anything he looks healthier then before.

if i euthanize the hippo and do a 100% water change including changing the filter media could i possibly save the blond? i will restart a full qt for the blond but will not do prazi or copper and just observe for 8 weeks

i cant believe my hippo has brook, i am grateful the RC! without this site i would never have a qt system! i can not believe people just dump fish in the DT without qt!
 
Thank you very much Chris! yes i can get that from them, shipping will cost 10x the product so i might as well get other things, do you recommend anything else from them i should have on hand?

Thanks again
 
OK THANK YOU FOR THE STICKY

i can get this from a local doctor,

Prescription Medicines
Flagyl (metronidazole) is by far the most effective drug available against these diseases. Indeed it is the only effective treatment for fish that are internally infected with Uronema marinum, but it has to be administered in the diet. To treat with Flagyl (metronidazole), add 34mg/l (34mg/kg bodyweight is required if treating the internal disease) of the drug to the aquarium water to be treated. A single dose should be effective, but it can be repeated daily, if required, as the drug is well tolerated by most fish. It is a very reef safe drug having little impact on invertebrates BUT it will kill off all protozoans and anaerobic bacteria in the treated tank, so, like all medications that are used in a reef tank, it will have some undesired effects on the ecological stability of the tank.

Now i will treat both the blond and the hippo with this, unfortunately the hippo does not eat anymore, also i will need to stop the copper immediately i suppose after 2 weeks of dosage and do a full 100% water change?

i can still get acriflavin, but flagyl seems to be a better bet? unless its to late since he will not eat anymore
 
I personally feel acriflavin is a better bet against brook, as I have read conflicting accounts of metronidazole's effectiveness against the parasite. But, if you can get metro more quickly than acriflavin, it might be a better option in this instance. I wouldn't worry too much about the fact the fish isn't eating - they can go weeks without food - but you obviously need to get him into treatment before the disease progresses too far.

You should remove all copper medication before starting a new treatment. Water changes and adsorbents (activated carbon, Cuprisorb or Poly-Filter) can remove the copper pretty quickly.

Also, be aware that metro will destroy any biological filtration present, so be prepared to do frequent water changes to keep ammonia in check.
 
thank you Chris, as soon as i get the med i will post back (probably in 20min), i will do a 90% water change and run activated carbon for, i would like to get the meds in today, but after a 90% wc how long should i run carbon to make sure no copper is left?
 
avandss said:
thank you Chris, as soon as i get the med i will post back (probably in 20min), i will do a 90% water change and run activated carbon for, i would like to get the meds in today, but after a 90% wc how long should i run carbon to make sure no copper is left?
Click to expand...

Depends on the brand of carbon. Do you have a Cu test kit? You'll need one to make sure all the Cu is removed.
 


got the pills.... i will open them and dose according.

i have a test kit for copper, so my action plan is to change 90% of water, (salinity is same as DT) use the carbon tonight (overnight) and dose tomorrow morning if the copper test shows 0

as for dosing
they are in a 40 long
34mg/l
40 gallon = 150 liter
150x34 = 5100mg
so thats 10 pills? does that make sense? i only have 20 pills

day 1 - dose 10 pills
how should i proceed after the initial dose?
 
Not sure on dosage - I've always used medication formulated for aquarium usage. Hopefully someone else will chime in with advice.
 
i think i would need some advice from snorvich, no idea how to get his attention! i just cant find any threads on dosing!! and he wrote the original guidelines
 
80% water change complete (matched temp & salinity )

i am running carbon and purigen to get rid of the leftover copper (fish seem to be VERY happy in the copper free water)

and i will attempt the dose tonight
 
my only question regarding dosing, one dose enough? when snorvich says to repeat the next day does that mean full dose no WC?
 
Poor advice. Ginger has no value in a marine aquarium ;may be harmful as it's an organic with unknown effects such as bacterial activity.
 
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