Ich outbreak in newer DT, should I hypo?
- Thread starter houstonreefer20
- Start date
I had the exact same problem in a 100 gallon display tank, my answer, remove all invertebraes and carbon filtration and use cupramine(really passive copper medicine), works great, keep it a cupramine tank for at least 60 days, then you can add your carbon filtration back or use cuprasorb and in another 30-60 days or so in a good high flow tank you'll test no copper and can start adding your invertebraes back. I left mine a FOWLER and just setup my 125g as a reef tank, but I've already added some invert cleaner crew back and they are doing fine, doesn't seem to be any copper left in the live rock or sand since the cleaning crew spends most of its time there.
houstonreefer20
New member
Correct, I definitely dont plan to use copper. It'll stain my joints plus risks coral, especially since I want to build it into a high acro tank.
As per your other comment - I learned my lesson, and I know to quarantine - but honestly because this was a new tank, I figured I was being smart by taking a chance to toss them all together at once, because I can 'just treat the whole tank'
But yes, After I get past this bump, I'll be much more diligent.So, this leads to my next question - if I do decide to clean and steralize the tank, given the following fish list, how would you recommend me doing the TTM + hypo, and what size tank(s)? I'm trying to get a better idea of the work involved/steps needed to prep.
1. 4 tangs - hippo, powder blue, powder brown, yellow
2. 4 clown fish - 2 large, 2 babies
3. 5 chromis
4. Diamond goby
ThRoewer
New member
One recommendation would be to thin out the herd - you have way too many tangs for a 150 gallon tank. Two would be plenty, but 4 is overcrowded - or will be when they are all grown up.
If it was me I would get a 40B and partition it with eggcrate for the tangs. The small fish should be able to get along if you distribute them on the partitions. If there are fights you can always get planter baskets (garden department of Home Depot or Lowe's) to hold the small fish in those above the tangs.
One of this set-up should work for hyposalinity.
For TTM you would need to double it so one can be sterilized while the othe is in use.
I would start with hyposalinity and see how it goes. If you want to make sure the fish are clean you can run them through TTM one by one or in small batches before returning them to the DT once it is sterilized and cycled.
For TTM with single larger or groups of small fish you can use 10 gallon tanks.
If it was me I would get a 40B and partition it with eggcrate for the tangs. The small fish should be able to get along if you distribute them on the partitions. If there are fights you can always get planter baskets (garden department of Home Depot or Lowe's) to hold the small fish in those above the tangs.
One of this set-up should work for hyposalinity.
For TTM you would need to double it so one can be sterilized while the othe is in use.
I would start with hyposalinity and see how it goes. If you want to make sure the fish are clean you can run them through TTM one by one or in small batches before returning them to the DT once it is sterilized and cycled.
For TTM with single larger or groups of small fish you can use 10 gallon tanks.
houstonreefer20
New member
Thanks. I may try to do that then. I do really appreciate all your input thus far, super helpful!
I did have 2 more questions though:
1. Is the reason why hypo in a new tank works vs in DT, is because when moving fish, the only ich that can be transferred over would be the ich that is currently infested on the fish, and would at some point drop off and die before it can encyst/change to the infective stage?
2. What's the best way you recommend to sterilize the tank, given it's a 150 gallon that was fully setup? Take out rocks, sun dry, take out sand, throw away (or sun dry), empty tank fully and let dry, then add new sand and add rocks after dry? Or is there a 'better' way? Eg. dump a ton of bleach in the tank with water as-is, let sit a bit, then remove all water and run new water, etc?
Thanks!
I did have 2 more questions though:
1. Is the reason why hypo in a new tank works vs in DT, is because when moving fish, the only ich that can be transferred over would be the ich that is currently infested on the fish, and would at some point drop off and die before it can encyst/change to the infective stage?
2. What's the best way you recommend to sterilize the tank, given it's a 150 gallon that was fully setup? Take out rocks, sun dry, take out sand, throw away (or sun dry), empty tank fully and let dry, then add new sand and add rocks after dry? Or is there a 'better' way? Eg. dump a ton of bleach in the tank with water as-is, let sit a bit, then remove all water and run new water, etc?
Thanks!
ThRoewer
New member
1. Yes, the only ich in the HT will be the one the fish bring. Below 1.011 kg/L the ripe parasites will not encyst and die off. To be on the save side keep the salinity at 1.009.
With tangs I would definitely do TTM before adding them to the DT.
2. I would just pour a good measure of bleach into the tank to kill of anything in it. Let the pumps run. so that the bleach gets everywhere. I would let the bleach soak in for at least a day and then drain the whole tank. (a good indicator when the bleach has done its job is when all algae on the rocks are gone).
Then refill the tank with tapwater and add enough Prime (or any other de-chlorinator) to neutralize the bleach. Let that soak for at least twice as long than the bleach.
I would do at least 2 more water changes (tapwater) before refilling the tank with saltwater. After letting the rinsing water out see if you can smell chorine in the tank - if yes do another round with prime.
Sand can be siphoned out and boiled.
Be careful with the amount of bleach - it can damage equipment made of cheaper plastic.
Any equipment with water contact should be thoroughly cleaned and dried before put back into service.
With tangs I would definitely do TTM before adding them to the DT.
2. I would just pour a good measure of bleach into the tank to kill of anything in it. Let the pumps run. so that the bleach gets everywhere. I would let the bleach soak in for at least a day and then drain the whole tank. (a good indicator when the bleach has done its job is when all algae on the rocks are gone).
Then refill the tank with tapwater and add enough Prime (or any other de-chlorinator) to neutralize the bleach. Let that soak for at least twice as long than the bleach.
I would do at least 2 more water changes (tapwater) before refilling the tank with saltwater. After letting the rinsing water out see if you can smell chorine in the tank - if yes do another round with prime.
Sand can be siphoned out and boiled.
Be careful with the amount of bleach - it can damage equipment made of cheaper plastic.
Any equipment with water contact should be thoroughly cleaned and dried before put back into service.
houstonreefer20
New member
Perfect, thanks for the input. I'll try to do all that in a week or 2 once I have the bandwidth for it.
But another question - how should I QT my inverts, and in the future, how should I QT new inverts? Do I really need to go through the ttm with them as well?
But another question - how should I QT my inverts, and in the future, how should I QT new inverts? Do I really need to go through the ttm with them as well?
houstonreefer20
New member
Sorry, I'm confused - why would the ttm method not work for inverts? Is it because the ich can transfer over in both cyst and active form for inverts? That said, I cant see it being too reasonable to keep them in a different tank for a full 3 months before introducing them...
Deinonych
New member
TTM works by preventing the feeding stages from forming cysts. Since inverts cannot act as a host for the parasite, it doesn't work for them. They could be harboring cysts on their skeletons or shells however.
ThRoewer
New member
TTM works only for the infected host.
TTM prevents the ripe parasite that left the host and encysted from "maturing" by killing it when you sterilize and dry the equipment.
The issues with inverts are two:
1. free infective stages that come with the transport water of the invert
This would only require a few days (exception is brook which needs 6 weeks)
2. ripe parasites that have encysted on a hard surface of an invert (frag plug of corals, shells of shrimp, crabs and clams,...
unless you want to sterilize your inverts (= kill them) you have to wait until the cysts pop and release the next generation of parasites. Without fish those will die off within a day or two and the inverts are clean.
Shrimp and crabs should be clean after the mold the first time in QT (does not apply to hermits since they usually carry a potentially contaminated snail shell around)
Corals could be cut off the frag plug or base - ich (and I suppose velvettoo) can't encyst on living coral tissue. If they have no other spots with exposed skeleton they should be clean then. But corals come with their own plethora of pests so you definitely want to QT them just for that reason.
TTM prevents the ripe parasite that left the host and encysted from "maturing" by killing it when you sterilize and dry the equipment.
The issues with inverts are two:
1. free infective stages that come with the transport water of the invert
This would only require a few days (exception is brook which needs 6 weeks)
2. ripe parasites that have encysted on a hard surface of an invert (frag plug of corals, shells of shrimp, crabs and clams,...
unless you want to sterilize your inverts (= kill them) you have to wait until the cysts pop and release the next generation of parasites. Without fish those will die off within a day or two and the inverts are clean.
Shrimp and crabs should be clean after the mold the first time in QT (does not apply to hermits since they usually carry a potentially contaminated snail shell around)
Corals could be cut off the frag plug or base - ich (and I suppose velvettoo) can't encyst on living coral tissue. If they have no other spots with exposed skeleton they should be clean then. But corals come with their own plethora of pests so you definitely want to QT them just for that reason.
houstonreefer20
New member
ok just an update here - I got another tank to do the TTM method and I think I'm going to go through all this during the weekend. Now my next question is sanitizing my DT.
1. I plan to siphon out all the sand and boil it as you said (still not sure how long to boil, I'll definitely have to do multiple rounds). I'll also dumb a bunch of clorox/bleach in to sanitize everything. How much would you recommend for ~180 gallons of water?
2. I dont plan to remove my plumbing... I imagine it should get sanitized with the clorox and what not, correct?
3. Similarly, my DT rocks (pukani) and my marinepure I plan to leave in the tank/sump as well, to get sanitized by the bleach. Is that ok?
4. I'll remove my skimmer and fully sanitize it.
5. Is there anything else I should consider?
Thanks
1. I plan to siphon out all the sand and boil it as you said (still not sure how long to boil, I'll definitely have to do multiple rounds). I'll also dumb a bunch of clorox/bleach in to sanitize everything. How much would you recommend for ~180 gallons of water?
2. I dont plan to remove my plumbing... I imagine it should get sanitized with the clorox and what not, correct?
3. Similarly, my DT rocks (pukani) and my marinepure I plan to leave in the tank/sump as well, to get sanitized by the bleach. Is that ok?
4. I'll remove my skimmer and fully sanitize it.
5. Is there anything else I should consider?
Thanks
houstonreefer20
New member
Anyone?
kmbyrnes
New member
DO NOT BOIL SAND OR ROCK!!!
You can release deadly chemicals.
You want about a 10:1 ratio of water to bleach.
I would just toss the sand and get new.
Drain your tank and move the rocks to smaller containers.
Soak it all in bleach, rinse it and air dry it. Then rinse it and air dry it again.
Rocks will take some time to air dry. I waited 3 weeks.
Once the tank is drained, spray all the surfaces with the bleach solution. Rinse and repeat. Then air dry. Rinse once more.
You can release deadly chemicals.
You want about a 10:1 ratio of water to bleach.
I would just toss the sand and get new.
Drain your tank and move the rocks to smaller containers.
Soak it all in bleach, rinse it and air dry it. Then rinse it and air dry it again.
Rocks will take some time to air dry. I waited 3 weeks.
Once the tank is drained, spray all the surfaces with the bleach solution. Rinse and repeat. Then air dry. Rinse once more.
krullshards
New member
kmbyrnes
New member
krullshards, I never use live sand. It will become 'live' soon enough.
The bacteria will colonize the sand just as they do the dead rock that you seed with with a bit of live rock.
The OP was asking about decontaminating his tank. IMHO, the effort required to fully clean and sterilize the old sand is not worth the time required. But as with most things, there is no one 'right' way, so it's just my two cents.
I was really more concerned about the rock boiling than anything else.
The bacteria will colonize the sand just as they do the dead rock that you seed with with a bit of live rock.
The OP was asking about decontaminating his tank. IMHO, the effort required to fully clean and sterilize the old sand is not worth the time required. But as with most things, there is no one 'right' way, so it's just my two cents.
I was really more concerned about the rock boiling than anything else.
ThRoewer
New member
What deadly chemicals would that be?
I've boiled sand and rocks many times and never had any problems with that.
kmbyrnes
New member
Palytoxins for one.
Please read this before boiling:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blo...-poisoning-almost-killed-myself-wife-and-dogs
Please read this before boiling:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blo...-poisoning-almost-killed-myself-wife-and-dogs
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