Ich question

[cellingson]

Question

I have a kole tang.
Had him in my DT for about a year and he developed what I believed was ich. He had multiply spots that came and went over the next few days as I tried to remove him and my other fish to go fallow. He always ate well a and stayed active.

I finally caught him with a fish trap and he went into QT with the other fish in DT for treatment. Other fish include red hawk, 2 clowns, green goby.

I used wseachem cuparime and got concentration up to 0.6 before letting the tank sit for 4 weeks, checked levels weekly and topped off copper to keep stable. No more spots and fish looked good and continue to eat and act the same whether there were spots are not. No other fish seem bothered.

One week ago the copper was removed and today the spots are back. I was hoping they would be able to go back to DT in a few weeks since we are nearing day 60 and anticipate holding 80 days.

Should I try something else, tank transfer, hyposalinity, higher copper levels?

Here are tonight's picks

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[dkeller_nc]

That's unfortunate, because you -almost- had it done. The issue with copper treatment is that while it will kill the free-swimming parasites when they hatch out of the cysts in the substrate, copper will not kill the cysts. These cysts can persist for up to 72 days at reef tank temperatures (longer if it's colder).

Because tangs in particular are sensitive to copper, I'd suggest the hyposalinity method - that is, if you have an ATO that you can spare for the purpose. One of the reasons I suggest this method in this particular circumstance is that ich typically infects the fish's gills first, and compromises their respiration. Lowering the salinity helps the fish breath, and almost all species tolerate considerably lower specific gravity than 1.026. For hypo to be effective, you need to lower the specific gravity to 1.009 and keep it there for at least a few weeks. Any lower than 1.009, though, and the fish's metabolism can't compensate. So it's critical that you be able to accurately measure the specific gravity, and keep it precisely at that value - that's why an ATO is necessary.

Hyposalinity is not 100%, by the way, but it's nearly so. There are known strains of cryptocaryon irritans that will survive a specific gravity of 1.009, but I don't get the impression that they're typically encountered in the hobby.

Finally, you could elect to use the Tank Transfer method. This has the advantage of getting a no-ifs-ands-buts-or-maybes cure for the fish in a fairly rapid manner (about 12 days). Its downside is that it's considerably more of a PITA than hypo with an ATO, and it definitely stresses the fish more than hypo because by definition you're putting the fish in a sterile tank with no biological filtration, so the ammonia level is definitely going to rise and it's toxic to the fish in any amount. Tank transfer relies on accurately assessing the ammonia level and controlling it by reducing feeding, and then switching to completely new saltwater every 3 days.

Since your fish is already somewhat stressed by the copper treatment, and may have damaged/compromised gills from the ich infestation, I'd favor the hyposalinity method in this case.

 

[LIreefguy]

I agree with the the statements above but I probably Do tank transfer method

Simple because if hypo doesn't work I wouldn't want to do a 3rd treatment




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[HumbleFish]

Which copper test kit did you use?

 

[Daddyrawg]

Did you recently add a fish or did it just randomly get it?

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[cellingson]

Which copper test kit did you use?

Seachem copper test


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[cellingson]

Did you recently add a fish or did it just randomly get it?

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I started using reef frenzy and then bam started getting it. Funny thing is it seems like every time I use it in QT he gets it too. Well once the copper came out I hadn't used it for about a week and then I did the last two days. Weird???




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[Uncle99]

Hypo works if done as directed.
The parasite cannot regulate its intake of water when water is 1.009.
It continues to take in normal amounts, but, expels it at a much slower rate.
In about 4-5 days, they viturally explode and are permanently dead.

When it comes to salinity, down can be done in a day, upwards only .001 per day.

 

[HumbleFish]

There are a few strains of ich where 30 days treatment may not be enough. However, it is also possible this is not an ich recurrence - especially if the spots remain > 7 days. There is a "mystery disease" fish (especially tangs) sometimes get following exposure to copper.

Check out this thread for example: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2440449

And this: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2688254

 

[cellingson]

There are a few strains of ich where 30 days treatment may not be enough. However, it is also possible this is not an ich recurrence - especially if the spots remain > 7 days. There is a "mystery disease" fish (especially tangs) sometimes get following exposure to copper.

Check out this thread for example: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2440449

And this: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2688254

Interesting reads.
The spots seem to come and go unlike the fish in these threads. One day full of spots and the next day they are gone. So weird. Fish acts totally Normal and no other fish are affected.
I'm going to try ttm and see how that goes.


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[Uncle99]

It's Ick, the fish is in a place which has free swimmers.
Maybe think of TTM, when they fall off, move him to next "tank"
Great method for tangs...