Ichfest 2015 or Something Else?

microlady

New member
Here is my situation:

Bad, bad, luck the past few months!

I've had all of my fish for over a year in a 100 gallon reef tank, so a parasite must have gotten in via a rock, coral, or invert, or my fish have been asymptomatic.

In May, I moved the tank to our new house. Everything went fine, but I did lose my cleaner shrimp a week later. Then, I had a tank leak a couple of months ago and had to move everything to temporary quarters for about a week. Finally, I moved everything back into the new tank a little over a month ago.

Well, I noticed the flame angel had white spots (like it was sprinkled with salt) a couple of weeks after the move to the new tank. Then my royal gramma was covered in it and hid constantly. I lost these two a couple of weeks later. After that, I have had about one fish death a week. Some had labored breathing and flashing on the rocks before they died. I lost 4 fish.

Last week I decided to remove the remaining fish to a quarantine tank and allow the tank to go fallow. Both of my ocellaris clownfish looked like they had been lightly sprinkled with powdered sugar around their head region, and the yellow tang frantically visited the cleaner shrimp, and scratched on rocks.

I am currently performing TTM on my remaining fish. The first morning after the move, I lost one clownfish. I did the second tank transfer last night, and this morning I lost my yellow tang. He was breathing very fast after the transfer last night, and this morning he was on his side before he died. I took some photos of him that I can upload later. What is strange is that he looked like he was covered in powdered sugar. I placed him into freshwater to see if anything came off and some tiny white flecks are floating in the water. He is very red around his mouth and his tail area, almost like a bacterial infection was beginning.

So what should I do now? I plan on finishing the TTM and keeping them in quarantine for the full 72 days (while the DT is fallow). Could this be Brooklynella or Velvet? I don't think it is because everything didn't die quickly. Can crpto get so bad on a fish that they look cloudy? The slime coat is intact and not coming off in sheets. There is no velvety sheen. I have a microscope at work, so should I try to perform a gill scrape on the tang? Ideas? Thanks!
 
Please describe behavior of fish. Powdered sugar normally would be velvet. Tank transfer does not solve that problem. Best would be chloroquine phosphate. See my blog.
 
There was no heavy gilling until about 24 hours before death. These fish have been ill for quite some time. The tell-tale white spots have been present for quite a while too. The deceased dwarf angel and the royal gramma appeared to be sprinkled with salt. I noticed erratic swimming, scratching on rockwork, but keeping a good appetite.

I'm really hoping it isn't velvet. Doesn't that kill quickly? I did a fin and gill biopsy today, and the cysts are indicative of C. irritans, but I'm no parasitologist. I don't see how velvet would have gotten into the tank as easily, and there is no velvety sheen to any of the fish. No new fish additions occurred for at least a year, and no new coral additions for several months.

I'm attaching a photo of the deceased tang. It looks like a bacterial infection might have been setting in.

Should I continue with TTM?
 

Attachments

  • crypto (1).jpg
    crypto (1).jpg
    55.3 KB · Views: 7
Last edited:
Here are the fin and gill biopsy photos at about 100 X TM. Does anyone here have experience identifying these parasites under the microscope? Do these cysts look like C. irritans or something else? A few websites showed some microscopic photos, and these look exactly the same.

I also took some video from the iPhone, but I'm not sure if would make for a compatible upload on this site. The cysts are visibly rotating and moving inside the gills.

crypto (3).JPG

crypto (1).jpg
 
That looks like crypto, and the fact that it was rolling pretty much confirms it. The rolling action is what makes it so irritating to fish.

Amyloodinium is smaller than crypto, and the infection is usually quite dramatic, with lots of trophozoites embedded in the tissue.

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/media/vet/photos/media/photos/exlfh15.jpg

Well, that's an honest relief. Those photos are at 100 X TM, and the cysts are pretty large. There weren't too many on the body, but there were several in the gill tissue. I can email you the video if you'd like and you can share it on here.

I would have thought velvet would hit much quicker, and couldn't be carried as long by fish. Unfortunately, I've lost several fish and I feel so horrible. The stress of the move must have triggered the outbreak. It was probably entrenched in my tank all along, and I should have pulled the fish out sooner.

Now I'm going to let those little microscopic bastards (pardon my French) die while the tank goes fallow for 10-12 weeks. :uzi: Is 12 weeks better than 10? I keep seeing 72 days being the "magic" number.

So TTM and then observation? Does that sound like a good plan?
 
Now I'm going to let those little microscopic bastards (pardon my French) die while the tank goes fallow for 10-12 weeks. :uzi: Is 12 weeks better than 10? I keep seeing 72 days being the "magic" number.

So TTM and then observation? Does that sound like a good plan?

When I went fallow a while back, I went 12 weeks just to be sure. 72 days is the "recommended" fallow period, but I was determined to never see Crypto in my tank again. And I figured, "what's another two weeks?" This was almost 2 years ago, and I've been disease free ever since. I did TTM followed by observation when my tank went fallow (also do TTM on all new acquisitions). IME/IMO it's the most effective treatment protocol for Cryptocaryon. Only downside is that it ONLY works for crypto.
 
Will a 72 day fallow period for the DT take care of velvet too?

I went 4 months fallow and it did absolutely nothing. As soon as I put my QT'd fish in there which were treated with CP, within 10 days they were sugar covered in white spots. You can go fallow as long as you want, but IMO, its a waist of time. Best bet which is what i'm going to do is nuke the tank and start from scratch.
 
I went 4 months fallow and it did absolutely nothing. As soon as I put my QT'd fish in there which were treated with CP, within 10 days they were sugar covered in white spots. You can go fallow as long as you want, but IMO, its a waist of time. Best bet which is what i'm going to do is nuke the tank and start from scratch.

Not that it matters much at this point, but I never had any success treating crypto with CP. Without proper measurement tools or test kits, it's almost impossible to know whether you are maintaining therapeutic dosage. And, there is speculation that some of the bacteria in our tanks break down CP.
 
Not that it matters much at this point, but I never had any success treating crypto with CP. Without proper measurement tools or test kits, it's almost impossible to know whether you are maintaining therapeutic dosage. And, there is speculation that some of the bacteria in our tanks break down CP.

In my case, was not dealing with crypto...everything pointed to velvet or brook but not ick so per what is being said around here, CP is what is recommended for this. I used ICH shield. Fish were fine and looked great in QT after treatment. They were in my QT for over 8 weeks and an observation period of 4+ weeks. But yeah, it doesn't matter at this point.
 
I am not stripping down and nuking my tank, and I don't understand how a parasite could lie dormant in a tank for 4 months at reef temperature. Anything is possible, I guess. I'm leaving it fallow for 10-12 weeks.

Thank you for verifying that I'm most likely dealing with Cryptocaryon. All of my fish came from Live Aquaria and I would be shocked if they had velvet with their 2 week guarantee. It's possible that rock, inverts, or corals brought it in. Everything will be quarantined from now on.

I have 5 surviving fish and I will continue TTM followed by observation. Everyone ate today, so tha is a very good sign. The remaining clownfish has a little bit of rapid breathing, but I'm trying to be hopeful.
 
I went 4 months fallow and it did absolutely nothing. As soon as I put my QT'd fish in there which were treated with CP, within 10 days they were sugar covered in white spots. You can go fallow as long as you want, but IMO, its a waist of time. Best bet which is what i'm going to do is nuke the tank and start from scratch.

Did you try TTM? I'll keep you posted on my situation and let you know if it comes back.
 
Not that it matters much at this point, but I never had any success treating crypto with CP. Without proper measurement tools or test kits, it's almost impossible to know whether you are maintaining therapeutic dosage. And, there is speculation that some of the bacteria in our tanks break down CP.

I've read a lot of literature that says this too.
 
Back
Top