Ick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[greg1786]

I bought a new fish at the 6 days ago. After drip acclimating him I put him right into main tank because at this point i did not have a quarentine tank. The very next day he had tiny white AND black spots all over him and a brown hairy growth on his top lip. I took pictures and went back to lfs and they said most likely black ick and white ick. I quickly built a nice quarrentine tank and treated him with copper. I have two clown fish one goby a sea star some zoas and a nem in the main tank. After two days of quarrentine he had completely lost all his "ick" and fur that was on his mouth. The 3rd day of quarentine he began eating and became more active. It has now been 5 days and he is very happily swimming about and eating algae from a clip and pellet food. My question is is it safe to put him back in main tank yet? And also none of my other fish were affected. Could he have come with ich from the store already or what? i didnt treat the main tank cause of the inverts so i was sure i was gonna have a mass outbreak but it never came? could it be that there was no ick in my tank to begin with or a possibility that it could have been some other disease?

 

[sieloff84]

I would keep him in QT for a bit longer

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1992196

 

[jamesbaur13]

It's tough to say if the fish was carrying it or if the tank has it.

Read up on treating with copper for marine ich. You need to be testing for proper copper levels in order to make treatment effective... make sure your test kit is compatible, some are not.

Don't go by what you can see. Ich is very small and undetectable by the naked eye. You are actually seeing a secondary infection... simply giving your fish a less stressful environment can make it appear the fish is cured when in all reality it is not.

When you reintroduce the fish I would suggest using an acclimator and keep him in there for 3 days of observation. If he stays clean after the 3 days then you are probably ok to release him into the tank. If he's not clean pull him and all of your fish and put them into QT... that's the only thing which will eradicate ich.

Fish can live with ich if stress is kept to a minimum and with a proper diet. If you are unable to QT all the fish and let the DT go fallow for 10wks then you should try and learn as much as you can about managing ich.

 

[snorvich]

I disagree with the post above, please read the ich stickies.

 

[jamesbaur13]

I disagree with the post above, please read the ich stickies.

On which point do you disagree?

 

[MrTuskfish]

Its very common for ich to disappear for a few days; then come back X100. You may be at that point. "Managing" ich is a short-term answer to a big problem. Sooner or later, any tank containing ich will have a major infestation. the only question is "when". I'd never keep a fish in a acclimation box for 3 days. A QT/HT is a vital piece of equipment; if you really want to enjoy this hobby, I'd get one and use it. I would do some reading and be ready; I would expect other fish in your DT to show ich very soon.
I think you probably have ich, and possibly black ich. Prazi-Pro will often take care of what is usually called Back ich", which is a worm. IMO, PP should be on all fish.Its a very safe wormer and can be used in the DT.

 

[Tokyoyankee]

Had ich, which killed all but 2 of my fish. I went though the whole process of removing and treating with copper. My tank is now ich free and any additions are quarintined and treated with copper before entering my DT. It's not worth it to not quarintine and treat. It's a ***** ripping up ur tankin order to get ur fish out

 

[MrTuskfish]

Had ich, which killed all but 2 of my fish. I went though the whole process of removing and treating with copper. My tank is now ich free and any additions are quarintined and treated with copper before entering my DT. It's not worth it to not quarintine and treat. It's a ***** ripping up ur tankin order to get ur fish out

I'm glad you did it the hard way, at least you got rid of the parasite rather than "managing" it.
I went through this too, never again. Our hobby has a very high turnover rate; and I'd bet that not quarantining new fish is a major reason.

 

[snorvich]

On which point do you disagree?

Various. You said:

When you reintroduce the fish I would suggest using an acclimator and keep him in there for 3 days of observation. If he stays clean after the 3 days then you are probably ok to release him into the tank.

I do not feel that keeping a fish in an acclimation box for 3 days is desirable and certainly not meaningful for ich diagnosis.

Fish can live with ich if stress is kept to a minimum and with a proper diet.

While good and proper diet is essential to long term fish health, it will have no effect on managing ich. Since the parasite tends to exponentially increase, at some point managing ich is not going to work.

If you are unable to QT all the fish and let the DT go fallow for 10wks then you should try and learn as much as you can about managing ich.

Managing ich is an effort in futility and is one of the reasons many people who advocate such are no longer posting on this board

 

[MrTuskfish]

If you're lucky enough to live near an ''ich manager"; watch Craigslist for upcoming deals on slightly used equipment!
I really want to compare "ich managers" to ''Cub's Managers"; but love Wrigley field and can't bring myself to do it.

 

[jamesbaur13]

I'm not advocating "managing ich".

Some people don't have the means to setup additional tanks... for all we know Greg could be a 72yr old guy living in a small 1 bedroom apartment living on a fixed income.
For those without the means to go fallow... as much as you (mrtuskfish and snorvich) are trying to be helpful, realize that at the same time you are being discouraging.

Realize, this is a hobby... people do this for the enjoyment of it. If all they do is get discouraged that's when you see the slightly used equipment on craigslist. I can not tell you how discouraged I was to find out after following all the protocols and going fallow that my fish still had ich.

I agree... managing ich is basically playing Russian roulette. Eventually something is going to happen that is going to set it off. Sometimes this is years, sometimes it's weeks.

I've been good since November. I've lost 2 fish, not to ich, but to them bullying one another.

If ich was to blow up tomorrow and wipe out the entire tank I'd be ok with that. I wouldn't be happy, but I also wouldn't feel so discouraged that I'd want to quit the hobby.

If I didn't go through the "managing ich" phase that I am stuck in at the moment and instead I went through the entire fallow process all over again and have it fail a second time... well, you would see another craigslist ad full of slightly used equiptment.

I know you 2 are expressing what's best for the fish and many on here (myself included) appreciate that, my point is not to lose sight of the caretaker... how much care is a fish going to get from someone who is completely discouraged?

 

[greg1786]

Thank you everyone for your advice. James you are right in the sense that i am on a budget and do not have the means to set up a big enough quarentine tank to house my fish and invertabrates all together for several months and i appreciate the advice you gave me its very hard to come by people in this hobby like you who realize not everyone can afford all the best equipment and for that i am greatful. To the others who disagreed with him i appreciate your advice as well and if i could afford it i would certainly do the "right thing". I have gotten a 14 gallon rubbermaid and hooked it up with a 30 gallon filter, a small heater, thermometer, air stone, and a large plastic cup with a hole drilled in side and i took a suction cup from an old thermometer and put the stem through the cup and suctioned it to the bottom for the fish to hide in. I also have an algae clip in there for him to eat. He is doing so well right now swimming about and eating and has all of his color back. None of the fish in the main tank have come down with anything yet we are on day 7 since the fish was introduced to main tank and day 6 since he has been in medicated tank. Everything has been very good to me up until a little less than a week ago things began to go haywire. aside from this fish getting ich, my anemone began to die because the guy at lfs sold me a light fixture that he swore was t5ho however it was simply t5 and not ho. My nitrates also spiked to about 30ppm outta nowhere as well and my pink pincushion died. I immediately did some research and went out and bought a zoomed dual t5 ho light fixture and a Skilter 400. The reason i went with the skilter is because i am so tight for money. Everyone immediately bashed the skilter to death on this website and many others but it was all i could afford in an emergency situation. It has been on the tank for three days now and i have already had to empty the drip tray its working really well for me. would i like to have a really nice protein skimmer and a better light fixture with 6 lights and moonlight LEDs ? of course i would but on a budget i had to get what i could afford and both purchases have been very good to me. Anyway thanks everyone and ill keep you guys updated on my situation any advice going forward would be much appreciated

 

[Triggerfish]

basic ich treatment is simple. medicate for 2 weeks with cupramine. then monitor for another 4 to see if anything returns. as far as your main tank..well see what happens when yoiu reintroduce the fish.
btw what was the new fish..i didnt see it posted.

 

[jamesbaur13]

i am on a budget and do not have the means to set up a big enough quarentine tank to house my fish and invertabrates all together for several months

You dont need to QT the inverts, all you need is the fish out of the infected tank. Ich only lives off fish, by removing all the fish for 10 weeks you're starving the ich out of your display tank.

Fish only need a container, temperature, flow and water (and food of course).

Keeping their water good is the toughest part during treatment.

You can use small hospital tanks for the duration you are treating your fish. This is going to chew through water as you'll need to be doing water changes to keep ammonia down. You'll need to repeatedly test for ammonia and to make sure your copper levels are correct (assuming you are sticking with copper treatment).

There are alternatives to copper... read up on tank transfer as another method. I wouldn't advise hyposalinity as it is probably the trickiest one to do.

You'll want to get a sponge filter and seed it from another tank that is pest free to set up a cycled QT. You can transfer your fish to this tank once they have been treated... the cycled tank will be able to cope with the ammonia better and save you on the water.

 

[greg1786]

ok...so do you think i should go ahead and try putting him back in the main tank to see if it comes back? and then if so just quarantine everything ? or should i not take the chance and just qt everything now? i only ask because my other fish have still not been affected? i have a zebra barred goby and two cinnamon clowns (male female pair). and the fish in qt is a Caribbean atlantic blue tang Sry i never mentioned that didn't even realize i hadn't


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[jamesbaur13]

It's tough to say...

It's more likely that you introduced ich to your display or that the display had it all along than it is that you managed to pull the infected fish from the tank before it had a chance to infect the tank.

You could get lucky though, but realize it's remote.

You could be postponing the inevitable by delaying to pull the remainder of the fish if your goal is to eradicate it.

 

[Graham670]

Just to share my experience...I have a 55g RR tank, and currently house a Sailfin Tang, Mystery Wrasse, Burnetts Anthia, Black Clownfish pair, Diamond Watchman Goby, and Female Leopard Wrasse. I have lost a few fish to Ich over time, but now i use a medication that i soak my food in, and not only has it kept Ich outta my tank, but sucessfully eradicated Ich from my Sailfin tang, The Anthia, and both Clownfish on a couple ocassions. I now feed this medicine every time i feed, and never have issues with Ich. The couple times i have had Ich break out, the medicine has eradicated it within a couple days.....

First, i use two cap fulls of Garlic Guard, then add a scoop of Seachem Focus. ( Antibacterial polymer for internal infections of fish ) then add a scoop of Seachem Metronidazole ( treatment for several protozoan bacterial diseases of fish ) i soak my food in it for about 8-10 minutes ( Mysis shrimp and/or cyclopeez is my usual choice ) then strain the garlic guard and extra medication out, and dump directly in display tank. My tank is heavily stocked with LPS, SPS, soft corals, and anenomes, and this medication never has any negative effects on anything. I have no QT/HT and have only ever lost a couple fish to ICH, but after learning this medication from my LFS, i have only lost one fish to ICH. Just my two cents, hope it can help.

And fyi, i use this mediation every time i feed, regardless of ICH or not, i believe it helps to promote a strong immune system, which helps to fend off, and beat ich if ever needed. Goodluck.

 

[greg1786]

well thats great man thanks for that its good info to know if i cant irradicate this devilish parasite. So i just got in from work and my male clown now has ich as well. So its clearly time to go fallow but i have a few questions. Is the 14 gallon rubbermaid that i have the tang in big enough to house the two clowns and goby as well with no issue? should i put a few pieces of live rock in there for the fish to hide or just pvc?? Also should i continue to treat with copper for the entire 10 week period or after the parasite is clear can i just go with regular water? During this period i will still have a BTA which i am trying to nurse back to health a royal sea star two pincushion urchins and a few zoanthid frags. is there anything special i need to do with the dt while its fallow other than the usual feeding and water changes?? any and all help with this process will be great i have been reading up on it from any and everywhere i can find info but some people with experience would be much better info imo. Thanks everyone for everything especially jamesbaur you have been so helpful to me i cant thank you enough. My girlfriend has been very upset over the last two weeks with the tank have so many issues and your advice has actually helped me keep her mind a little at ease !

 

[jamesbaur13]

I'd get the inverts back in the display.

I'm confused a little why they are out in the first place... your not putting copper in the display tank right? You shouldn't be putting copper in there.

PVC will work for hiding places.

I'd get another 14gal tote for the gobys and clowns if you can swing it. The tang needs his space, not too mention that many fish in that small a container is going to be rough to keep water quality good.

 

[greg1786]

The inverts are still in the dt. They never came out i was a little unclear the way i worded that sry. I meant to ask if there was anything out of the ordinary i needed to do to the dt while there was only inverts in it and no fish