I'm confused

don-n-sa

Premium Member
I got a chance to get a rapatoral appendage from my Ontodactylus scyllarus from a recent molt and I was surprised on what I found:


This pic is the normal position that I see everyday:

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And here is a few pics with the appendages fully extended...I wonder if they used to be spearers and through evolution they became smashers, or can they do both?

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177362893-L.jpg
 
It is theorized that smasher evolved from spearers. Its thought that they were originally small mudsifter that ate small mud animals (like copepods or something) and evolved the rapts to catch those ones that almost got away. Eventually they got bigger and started targeting fish and such and eventually evolved clubs to smash hard shelled prey. They can and will use the spear part on soft body threats like us if they feel the need.....

Dan
 
Don't ask me how the mantis reasoning works on that one (and I am no expert so everything I've written is just a summary of what I've gotten) but when a mantis attacks you, especially if it is cornered, it will show off the sharper parts of its raptorial appendage...Also all smasher (that I know of) have a spear point at the end not just O. scyllarus.


Dan
 
Oh wait now I remember. I believe that this was originally said about H. californiensis, so I don't know if this applies to all smashers, but they have sharp hooks and it poses too much risk of losing the appendage if it get a hook caught in a fish and the fish zooms off. That is why H. californiensis only uses it as a defense....

Dan
 
If you look up Dr. Roys site, not just teh mantis id section, it tells all about their evolutionary history.
 
You think you are confused. I've been working on the evolution of stomatopods for decades and the picture of how the raptorial appendages evolved is even more confused than when I started. This is partly because of the advent of molecular techniques to infer phylogeny and an improved fossil record. When I first proposed the two functional types of stomatopods - spearers and smashers - We knew that the earliest protostomatopods split off from other crustaceans about 400 million years ago. These animals clearly had five pairs of maxilipeds that were all about the same size and each ending in a hook. The first stomatopods with an enlarged raptorial appendage (2cd maxilliped) didn't appear for 200 million years later. By 100 million years ago, all of the major groups of modern stomatopods were present. The assumption was that spearers evolved first and since the major group that was mostly spearers was the Squilloids, we considered them as ancestoral to the Gonodactyloidea that contains the most smashers. However, with the inclusion of fossil groups in attempts to bulid a phylogeny, this did not seem to be the case. The gonodactyloids and lysiosquilloids seem to be more basal. (However, we have some preliminary molecular data that may reverse this again. Also, recent analysis of some early fossils show that the raptorial appendage was evolving as early as 360 million years ago. The first raptorial appendages probably had just a spike or blade, not a barbed spearing appendage or an inflated dactyl heel that was used as a hammer. The modern Hemisquilla dactyl is similar to these early appedages.

Smashing and spearing appears to have evolved at least a few times in different lines, so it is probably wrong to think that spearers evolved from smashers or or reverse.

Roy
 
Thank you Dr. Roy I was hoping for your input.

Man the point of the appendage is the sharpest thing (not man made) that I have ever seen...have you ever observed the O.scyllarus using it as a spear to catch prey or as a defensive move?

These creatures never cease to amaze me.

Donavin
 
We don't have that much good video or observations on normal predation in the wild. It is hard to record their behaviour with a stationary camera and when a diver is present, they then to watch her rather than feed. I have seen a fight in the field between two O. s where one stabbed the other in the soft ventral abdomen and I have seen stabs at octopus. I have also seen them stab at predatory fish when grabbed in their jaws. This is the same behavior that I have experience several times when handling them.

Roy
 
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My G.grapherus stuck the snot out of me once. Never tried to hand feed that one again. Hairy the G.chiagra I hand feed no problem, Squirtle doesn't get the same service.
 
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