Im going through my first "CRASH" and need some HELP...

[SharkJP]

Ok, so, let me give ya'll a little background first before some of the grizzled vets on here shake their heads thinking "there goes another rookie mistake" (granted, it may very well be a rookie mistake, but I like to think ive taken the time to do everything "right")

Long story short, the tank is in the beginning of it's 5th month with me. I purchased an established RSM 130 from a buddy who had really let it go (GHA so bad the crew from Augusta national could barely make a dent!)

After hours upon hours of tweesing and rinsing, tweezing and rinsing, etc etc etc I got her ship shape (stock at this point is ocil. clown, blk clown, and fire angel)

After not seeing much of a "cycle" after the move and ammonia, NO2, NO3, and phosphates all at zero I started adding corals...

Fast forward to 2 weeks ago. The tank is really, REALLY thriving. Did every upgrade I thought necessary (new media rack to accommodate the Tunze 9002, new PC bulbs and ecozotic stunner strip LED additions (two stunner strips at 24watts ea on dimmable connectors with 3 watt acintic accent strip).

This was mostly an LPS tank with open brain, a few acan colonies, lobos, etc. with some zoos, ricordia, and some birds nest mixed in.

I started dosing about 2mo. ago and do not put a single drop in w.o testing first. I also keep meticulous notes and all water parameters prior to the crash were well in range (Ca a "bit" high, but I find it hard to believe that could be the cause and it was due to test kit error...)

Ca - 520 (about a week prior then dropping within range at 480ppm just 2 days before I left)
Mg - 1400
Kh - 9.6-9.8dKh
pH - 8.2
Ammonia - 0
Nitrites - 0
Nitrates - 0
Phosphates - 0
SG - 1.026

These readings were taken on Dec 2nd and I left town the morning of the 4th only to return on the night of the 5th (gone just under 36hrs)

When I got home the tank was a total disaster! About 60-70% of the livestock was dead (only one fish casualty...oh, and the current stock included a fire goby, algae blenny, purple/yellow chromis, and scopas...the scopas was the only casualty, but the fish did not look happy at all)

Checked the water and heres what I had:
Ca - 500 (has me scratching my head...)
Mg - 1400
Kh - 9.2
Ammonia - 0-.25 (barely into the green color...I am thinking this and the Nitrates has a lot to do with decomposing livestock in there for up to 24hrs or so...)
No2 - 0
No3 - 40-80 (tough to tell the color tint...)
Po4 - .25ish (again, barely off the zero color)
SG - 1.025

Only new additions over the past 2-4 weeks were a multi-colored urchin, scolymia (yes, I am still crying over this loss!!!!!!!!!!), 4 separate single acan heads, and a rose bubble nem.

Everything else I have been doing the same as always except I started adding about a quarter block of frozen "algae somethingorother" to their daily diet of frozen Mysis and minced raw gulf shrimp (deveined and shelled). The gulf shrimp is mainly for the aussies, but the fish obviously butt their way in, lol.


Here are my thoughts...maybe the heater stuck for a bit and I just wasn't around to catch it???

Stray current? - I did feel a little "sting" when I first put my hand in, but nothing I haven't felt before and it's mainly because I have dry hands in the winter and usually a raw cuticle or two and you know what they say about salt in an open wound...lol.

What about the possibility of something dying (fish and/or urchin) within a short time of me leaving and sitting in the tank for a day? Could that kill off so much so quickly???


I will post pics as soon as I get them off my iphone.

Can anyone offer any suggestions? Now that I am over the initial heartbreak (yea, well...not really, but Im working on it:headwalls I want to at least make sure I can learn from this and maybe even help someone else avoid the same mistakes in the future....


Thanks for all with any help!

 

[SharkJP]

Oh, I forgot to mention the trio of Damsels, but they were only in the tank for about 72hrs before being switched over the Fluval specs (5gal and 3gal) I also have.

I am a bit "ADD" with the aqua scape and tend to move it around every few weeks and that disturbs the sand bed, but I have never had any issues with it.

Also, sadly I did have to go away for the weekend and was terrified to get home and see what, if any, new death there was (when I first saw the crash I just dipped the remaing living...well, I should say "not dead yet" corals" in ReVive and just did a massive water change (80% or so) and pulled the live rock and rinsed it in fresh RO/DI water (there was detritus all over the place!!).

When I got home tonight, all but one colony of Acans (thank GOD! It's my favorite one, but its still not close to out of the woods), a pair of ricordia, 25% of the open brain (but I think it's done for ) and a little over half my favia frag bit the dust.

There also looks to be an bloom of brownish-red algae on the sand, rocks, and bottom quarter of the glass. I also noticed a lot of it on the corals. I know this is prob a big clue and I hope some of the incredible experience on this board can help!


Again, the only "remedy" I have really done is just WC after WC (doing another one as I type) because I didn't want to freak out and dump a bunch of anything into the tank because I would think that could only exacerbate the problem...


One other strange thing tho...the fish look healthy as can be again...don't get me wrong, I am not looking a gift horse in the mouth but it does confuse me a bit....

 

[vitz]

any power outages while you were away ?

 

[nmbeg]

OMG what a disaster. Obviously something started the spiral and now it's out of control.

What test kits are you using?

Continue water changes and removing dead stuff.

Not sure RO/DI dipping live rock is a good idea--better to use saltwater, otherwise you might be killing beneficial inverts.

That's all I can think of.

 

[nmbeg]

Where's the nem? They have been known to crash a tank upon death.

 

[SharkJP]

nem is actually still living. I guess I should've used a different adjective than "fresh" with dipping the LR. I meant new, lol...it was mixed with Reef Crystal so a SG of 34.

That actually brings up a good point. Sometimes when I am doing WCs (I am a bit of a freak when it comes to WCs and do a 15% change, give or take, at least every 2-3 days and a 25-30% at least every 7-10 days with a siphon of the sand-bed, good cleaning, etc. When I do the smaller WCs it's because Ive blasted the detritus off the LR and usually get about a full buckets worth before I've covered all the rock surface with the turkey baster.

Ok, I am rambling, but my point was how long should I let the mixed saltwater sit before adding it to the tank? There are sometimes when I plan ahead and it has overnight to aerate, but usually I mix it, toss the air stone in, bring to temp and it's in my tank as quickly as 20min or so but usually I give it an hour or two before adding. I've gotten mixed feedback, but my buddy who I really do trust at my LFS said it really isn't too much of an issue.
I would love the boards feedback as well...

 

[SharkJP]

Oh, and I am using RSM test kits for Ca, Mg, and Alk (I also do a second test with the API Ca one every other test or so just to "be sure")

I have the API Saltwater and Reef master kits for all else.

All kits are all new within the past 4-5 months except for Reef Master and I am only using that one for Phosphates now. n


How long does it take for a dead animal (a fish, or nem, or coral, or snail/crab, or urchin etc.) to poison the tank?

 

[vitz]

nem is actually still living. I guess I should've used a different adjective than "fresh" with dipping the LR. I meant new, lol...it was mixed with Reef Crystal so a SG of 34.

That actually brings up a good point. Sometimes when I am doing WCs (I am a bit of a freak when it comes to WCs and do a 15% change, give or take, at least every 2-3 days and a 25-30% at least every 7-10 days with a siphon of the sand-bed, good cleaning, etc. When I do the smaller WCs it's because Ive blasted the detritus off the LR and usually get about a full buckets worth before I've covered all the rock surface with the turkey baster.

Ok, I am rambling, but my point was how long should I let the mixed saltwater sit before adding it to the tank? There are sometimes when I plan ahead and it has overnight to aerate, but usually I mix it, toss the air stone in, bring to temp and it's in my tank as quickly as 20min or so but usually I give it an hour or two before adding. I've gotten mixed feedback, but my buddy who I really do trust at my LFS said it really isn't too much of an issue.
I would love the boards feedback as well...

at least 24 hrs. you should also be checking AND correcting ALL of the new water's parameters prior to using it.(Mg, Ca, alk). (some salts are very inconsistent from bucket to bucket, and even w/in the same bucket, due to uneven distribution of the various constituents in the mix. many are simply way too high in alk or Mg because the companies selling them are blithering idiots. redsea's salt is a prime example.).

if you don't mix the water for 24 hrs, a few consequences can result:

micro crystals that haven't dissolved yet can settle on corals and irritate them (and/or possibly burn them), and the alk of the new sw can be excessively high, if atmospheric CO2 doesn't have a chance to enter the new water to establish the O2/CO2 equilibrium and bring it down a tad-i've seen fresh sw mix to an alk of over 11, w/ some brands.

the idea is that even a water change shouldn't create a 'yo-yo' of suddenly rising/falling values due to any major diff between your tank's, and the new water's, parameters (organics non withstanding). wc's are meant to aid in stability of values, not their instability.

hth

 

[amlights]

Sounds like something caused some death and that kicked a whole bunch of things out of whack because the wasn't enough bacteria to support that much life yet. I agree with the power outage theory, or anything drastic like that.

About your water change schedule... IMO it's possible to do too many water changes and too big of water changes (considering it's just normal maintenance). As vitz said, the idea isn't to cause a "yo-yo" in parameters. It's to maintain. A 20% water change every week is good practice. I do between 10 and 15% a week.

Just me thoughts.

 

[GroktheCube]

It might be worth adding a little prime to the tank to help detoxify ammonia, and run a large amount of GAC. Is there any chance a heater or other appliance cracked and could be leaking something into the water?

Generally, water chemistry stability, good flow, good O2 levels, and removal of any chemical contamination is the way to go with a crash. Excessive and hasty WCs can sometimes make the problem worse by disrupting water chemistry.

That's part of why I use esv b ionic salt. VERY fast mixing and 100% consistent, so that in case of emergency I can get 30 gallons that match tank params 100% in an hour at most.

 

[SharkJP]

Wow, I've learned so much in just a few posts from yall...thanks!

This is something I don't do but will start asap:
Testing water BEFORE going into tank...I always just check and double check the salinity/SG...then check it about 4 more times before adding to the tank.

I just checked my No3 and it's down to 20ppm (that was the one most out of whack...somewhere between 40-80 and I realize that's a big difference, but damn those two colors are MIGHTY CLOSE in "hue" or "tint" or whatever they wanna call it, lol.

I think a new test kit with titrant is in my near future. I am on my way to the LFS to get my water tested just to reassure myself that I am doing everything "right" lol.


Also, thanks for the tips on the WCs and that I could be doing too many. the main reason I do them is because I generally blast the detritus off the rock once/day...I think I initially said every other day, but frankly, I seem to always be poking around in there with something or another.

I, SharkJP, do solemnly vow to keep my darn hands out of the tank as much as possible... ( :hmm5: )

I also will be sure to get some pics up ASAP because I think yall SEEING what's going on would really help me out.



THANKS AGAIN TO ALL OF YOU SO MUCH~! This has been a heartbreaking experience and it's nice to have your hand held from time to time



(P.S. -- Anyone have or know of a 60g rimless cube just lying around somewhere looking for a new home????? lol)

 

[Sk8r]

If you're feeling any 'sting' when putting your hand in the tank, unplug your heater and try putting your hand in after 30 min. Repeat, for pump, and lights. All power sources.

 

[ReddyW]

Are you still using the RSM heater? I've read that they stick on, leak current, destroy worlds, etc.

Spend a little money on a metal heater with an external control and make sure the temp probe is secure in the water.

 

[blakeorme]

Sorry about the losses. This hobby is great when things go well, but exhausting when things go wrong. While it won't solve any of the problems, investing in a controller gives you great piece of mind when leaving out of town. It would allow you to rule out a lot of variables and pinpoint what caused the crash. Again, not help in the current situation, but may give you some piece of mind in the future.

 

[SharkJP]

Sorry about the losses. This hobby is great when things go well, but exhausting when things go wrong. While it won't solve any of the problems, investing in a controller gives you great piece of mind when leaving out of town. It would allow you to rule out a lot of variables and pinpoint what caused the crash. Again, not help in the current situation, but may give you some piece of mind in the future.

Blake, that's actually one of my main points of focus right now because I do travel a lot on weekends and quick day and a half to two and half days or so and am somewhat of a neurotic fish parent.

Any suggestions? I am trying to decide between the APEX(not sure which one, but I am a bells 'n whistles junkie...sadly I have fillet minon taste on a mcdonalds budget at this point tho, lmao) or the sineeye iphone/ipad one.

I know there are a handful of others to choose from but I haven't had the chance to do all the research needed.

 

[SharkJP]

Are you still using the RSM heater? I've read that they stick on, leak current, destroy worlds, etc.

Spend a little money on a metal heater with an external control and make sure the temp probe is secure in the water.

No, pulled that the day I bought the tank and am going with an Eheim Jager 150W...I did have an aqueon pro in for a bit as well but went back to the Eheim.