In dire need of plumbing help

ocd_mariner

ocd_mariner

New member
I've got microbubbles. Lots of them. I can't figure out why.

I just recently replaced my return pump to a panworld, somewhere around 1200gph I believe. I've replaced a lot of my pvc with flex. I realized I made a lot of mistakes with pipe diameter when I set this thing up, so I've tried to correct those. Filter socks on the overflow drain. Bubble traps in the sump. Etc. I suspect cavitation, but I don't know how to determine if that is really the cause.

Basically, this is a problem that is going to be tough to explain. I need a plumbing master to drop by and help me figure this out. Please.


For the love of all that is holy.



Please.



:)
 
I can't drop by but I have some thoughts:

1) Can you put a ball valve on the output of the pump? If so, you can dial back the flow and see if the bubbles go away. If your new pump has more gph than your old one, then that may be the whole issue (too much flow through the system).
2) Shine a flashlight into the sump and see if you can see microbubbles making their way to the return pump. If so, then it may not be cavitation but too much flow through your sump given how it is set up.
3) Do you have any restriction on the intake to the pump? How is that plumbed?

Jack
 
There is already a ball valve on the output, going to put a gate valve on it tomorrow. I've got the microbubbles stopped, with about 250gph going through the sump. So, obviously something isnt right. The only restriction to the intake of the pump is a 90 elbow, with a foot and a half of flex from the elbow to the pump.
 
The flex is 1"

The elbow is 1 1/2" with a reducer for the 1" flex. There is also a 45 a few inches before the pump.
 
1" is pretty small for a 1 1/2 foot lead up to the pump with the 90 and 45 in there. Stowers knows more about the resistance that the 1" pipe would have. My guess is you should use ~2" diameter stuff.
 
What size should be coming out of the pump? Everything now is 1 inch, as that is what the pump connection as well as the return back into the aquarium.
 
Leading up to the pump where the water is all sucked in (not a closed loop), you want low resistance. Reducing just at the intake for the pump is fine. Hopefully c_stowers or someone with more technical knowledge will chime in, but you don't necessarily want the drag introduced by a 1.5' run with a couple of bends. Plumbing the intake with larger pipe would minimize this issue.

1" on the output is fine.
 
Another possibility is that you have a small leak somewhere on the intake end of the pump. Because that part is under suction it generally will not actually leak water but will consistently pull bubbles into the pump (inspect any union gaskets especially if you're pretty confident in your glued connections). Probably not an easy fix so exhaust some your other possibilities first.

On the plumbing, it can almost never hurt to go with bigger plumbing in between connections even if those connections are smaller.
 
I agree with Crumbletop. I personally wouldnt use 2" for the suction side of a 1200 gallon per hour pump, but it couldn't hurt. I would use 1.5" and try to minimize the bends and runs of flex pvc pipe on the suction side as well.

Try increasing the water level in the sump. If by doing this you eliminate or decrease the amount of bubbled, then the pump probably is cavitating. Increasing the water level in the sump will increase the NPSH (Net Pressure Suction Head), which will in turn minimize the chances of pump cavitation.
 
Brian,

I've redone the plumbing in the last few days, being meticulous about the glue, the last bit to redo is between the sump and the pump, so Ill knock out two birds with one stone.

Thanks for the suggestions, Ill update tomorrow.
 
Something I just noticed. I put a gate valve on the pump output today to better control. I think I got the flow rate up to about 600gph without bubbles. Then about 3 hours later, it started shooting microbubbles again.

I turned the pump off and on again and they stopped.

Over vacation, I thought I had fixed the bubble problem. About 3 days after I left, it started back up again.


Any ideas?
 
Chuck, I am running a mag 9.5 without micro bubbles. maybe I can swing by like thursday and take a look for ya. I also hav a 1200gph or so loop pump that did have a tiny air leak that I never saw. only fixed by redo of plumbing.
 
Brian -
Lowes carries it, murfreesboro and smyrna stores were out, but I saw the SKU with my own two eyes :)
http://spapartsnet.com/Spa-Replumbing/Flex-Pipe-and-Vinyl-Tube

Also, my pump died last night. I bought it from MyReefCreations (in case you didnt know, due to their location, anything you order from them gets to us NEXT DAY when shipped ground). Their customer service is stellar, so I'll have a new pump tomorrow.

Ill let you all know more then :)
 
Just an update.

I completely redid the plumbing last night. 1.5 inch all the way to the pump intake. Drilled the stand to make a much shorter path to the aquarium return and reinstalled a T the correct way for the chiller. Pump should be here today.

If I still have microbubbles, Im going on a ticked-off-michael-douglas-falling-down rampage.
 
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