In trouble with tangs? Need some help

[sikpupy]

Okay, got a baby small tang as I know someone that will take him later. I was talking to a friend that knew someone that had a juvi Atlantic blue. They did not have any idea how to keep it so they asked if I would take it since I seemed to know what I was doing with them....yea, well, now I have 2 tangs.

My real problem is I am not sure what’s going on with them. Well, actually, they seem to be doing fine, but.... The powder blue is swimming around comfortable and the Atlantic is following like a puppy dog. They are not freaking out, trying to get out or look cramped (they are half dollar size (PB) and smaller (Atlantic Blue) in a 20l).

Here is their meal plan. I have a leaf of romaine lettuce, some roasted Nori on a rock, thick gracilaria and some thin Hawaiian gracilaria in the tank. I feed a little shrimp here and there, 3-6 smallish pieces to them daily, which the Atlantic eats a bit of but not the PB, that I see. Maybe the PB will eat one small morsel and then that’s it. The blue seems to eat but eats very little here and there but I catch the Atlantic munching on everything in sight, just not a whole lot, but, munching away until the blue takes off then the Atlantic follows. This never really leaves the Atlantic a lot of time to eat. Now, when I am away, it could be a whole different story.

Possible problems.
1) I have noticed that both tangs stomachs look like a bag of marbles. Is this good/bad or normal?
2) The blue does swim around a lot and the Atlantic follows, steady swimming. Even though they are eating, are they swimming around too much and using too much energy, thus actually losing weight and getting skinny, hence the marbled textured gut? I ask because the Atlantic follows the blue like a puppy dog.
3) I am seeing some "lateral" bones (from head to tail) on their body’s. Not sure if they have been there (just got back from a 3 day weekend) or my fish are getting skinnier?

There bodies are exact duplicates, so, they are either getting skinnier or getting a fatter gut.

Final options - So, if they are eating, case closed. If this is of concern, what do I do to get them to eat more? Should I take my tank divider and divide them up? I was thinking of locking the PB in 1/3 of the tank, to curb his roaming, but still give him a little space. That would also keep the Atlantic at idle and both would be using less energy. This would either work great, or stress them more so I am not sure. Could do the opposite to, give the PB all the room and lock the Atlantic down. Heck, maybe try both?

Whats a favorite, and I mean all time, knock down make them eat food they would go nuts for? Something they would eat until they explode? Hmmm, then again, maybe that would be defeating the purpose!?


Thanks in advance...

 

[rendogg]

Sorry, I'm tired after just getting home from the hospital with my first baby daughter, so I'll be short.

Whatever you do, don't limit their swimming space.
I can't judge, for certain, if your fish are thin or not without a pic. Usually, unless they are total gluttons, you will only see an extreme lumpy gut on a skinny fish. If you think their bodies are skinny, they are.
Feed dried nori, not roasted.
Give them mysis and brine shrimp instead of larger shrimp, they're easier and more tasty to eat. You can soak them in Selcon or another EFA supplement to boost nutrition and fat content, especially the brine shrimp.
Finally, they could have parasites in their guts, or are cyanide caught.

Hope this helps.

 

[Macimage]

A 20L is not big enough to qt one tang, much less two.

The PBT is a swimmer. I feel badly watching mine swim the 6' in my 225 reef.

You may be able to successfully qt the smaller Atlantic Blue in the 20L if he is small enough. From your description, they do not sound like fat, healthy happy fish.

The PBT most likely will not make it in your 20l with the Atlantic Blue. You need to get it into a bigger tank.

Here is a good tang thread regarding minimum tank sizes for tangs:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=739380

 

[tmz]

A large qt and separation would be a good idea. Add some pvc for resting places . Prazi Pro may help with intestinal worms.

 

[rendogg]

Yeah, I agree with those guys, a larger tank is a must!.....I thought it said 201( I must be tired)...20 litres is tiny,tiny,tiny. In fact I'm surprised they're still alive. Upgrade your tank or give them to someone with adequate space before death comes a knockin'.

I guess I skimmed over the post, but I read it slowly, and now I'm certain your fish aren't eating enough.

Prazipro should work nicely if they have worms.

Goodnight.

 

[Toddrtrex]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15310374#post15310374 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rendogg
Yeah, I agree with those guys, a larger tank is a must!.....I thought it said 201( I must be tired)...20 litres is tiny,tiny,tiny. In fact I'm surprised they're still alive. Upgrade your tank or give them to someone with adequate space before death comes a knockin'.

I guess I skimmed over the post, but I read it slowly, and now I'm certain your fish aren't eating enough.

Prazipro should work nicely if they have worms.

Goodnight.

Not that is matters much, both are too small -- I think "20l" meant a 20 long, compared to a 20 H(igh).

The "marbles" in my experiences are from the romaine, which is very very hard for them to digest if it isn't blanched.

 

[tmz]

Thanks for the info on romaine. 20 gallon long might be ok, I was reading 20l as 20liters or 5 gallons. Prazi pro wont hurt though.

 

[sikpupy]

Sorry, it is a 20 long tank. They are small, very small. I know they like to roam in the wild, but, when I say they swim, they only use half the tank to begin with half the time. I have a 3" sani drain pipe on one end against the wall and a bridge thing on the other side. Some times they will go from one side to the other and other times they will just swim around in circles in the sani drain. When they do swim, it is always a VERY casual slow swim. They will pause, look out the tank, change direction and slowly swim some where else. Sometimes they just swim in little circles. I would have to say that the way they are swimming, like there is no concern in the world and that they are not stressed, and, or, looking for a way out. Where also talking about fish with a body size of 1" for the Atlantic and just a weeee bit larger for the PB. Yes, I know they need more room in the future but I am guessing they are "okay" for a week or two where they are. Also, 2 more weeks and they get dumped into my 90 for a year, then the PB goes to its new home. The Atlantic is another story, he was an unexpected door prize. What can I say, he was a refugee. I will figure out what to do with him in a bit.

Okay, well, I did not know about the Romaine needing to be blanched. I just red one guys tang went crazy, and, to make sure mine had a variety, I threw it all in there.

Thanks for the help. Whats the fattiest mysis I can get, or, maybe I should go with the tastiest? I need to find that post that talked about the battle of the mysis and fish loving comparisons, lol.

 

[Lightsluvr]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15310686#post15310686 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sikpupy


Thanks for the help. Whats the fattiest mysis I can get, or, maybe I should go with the tastiest? I need to find that post that talked about the battle of the mysis and fish loving comparisons, lol.

You've been beaten up on the tank size enough... TP in force.

My tangs go after PE (a brand name) frozen mysis. I would soak it in Selcon and drain before feeding. Nori (dried seaweed) is an important staple for the tangs.

Good luck and get them out of the samll tank as soon as possible.

JMHO.

LL

 

[sikpupy]

Okay, just for my eduaction and not trying to derail the help for the tangs, but, I read Macimage's link, just so I can say I am educated, if anything. What was listed is this:

Acanthurus coeruleus, Atlantic Blue Tang, 75 gal (285l).
Acanthurus leucosternon, Powder Blue Tang, 100 gal (380l).

I know this is for minimum size tank, assuming adult size(?) fish. Seeing as how my fish are 1/5 that size, a 20 gal tank is not all that unappropriate. I am not saying it is just dandy and all is fine in the land of oz, I am just baseing it on the math.

Second, fish, I would assume, need space that they are looking for. I.E. gobies stay in one spot. Gobies can swim if they want, but, they do not, useually. If my tang is not trying to get out and is just putzing around, using half of a 20 long he could be using, would that not say he does not need (at this moment), or, is not looking for more space? Lastly, is there enough commas in that last sentence?

I am not saying I know what I am doing, I am just merly asking questions, based on observance and MHO's.


Okay, to get back on track with the thread.. Thanks Lightsluvr, they will be out very soon. I know this may sound silly, but, I have some small needles. Would it be fruitless to stab some mysis and inject with selcon? Not sure if there would be enough selcon getting into the shrimp to justify spending an hour to try to do it, lol. I need and want as much fat I can feed them in thier food. I have some dehydrated bits of sea life in a can, could try to soak that in selcon maybe or would it be too rough for thier stomach if they even did eat it? Cant think of the name of it. Maybe top-fin ?? I could broil some mysis in butter, lol?

 

[Lightsluvr]

Just soak the mysis in Selcon... no need to inject, even if you could

Mysis is very small...less than 1/2" long...

LL

 

[Gwynhidwy]

It sounds like you are offering a good variety of herbivorous foods. The soaked mysis is a good idea, you might also try a variety of frozen foods and live brine. I have also had luck with getting tangs to eat softened sinking pellets. They will often pick at them as they roam about and then start eating them with gusto. I've had the most success with Hikari pellets, both the small and large size (they are different formulations as well as sizes). Have you tried soaking the food in fresh, crushed garlic?

If you have any to spare you might also try adding some live rock to the QT. You'd have to use some that was fully cured, as in from your DT, and you'd want no corals on it, and of course you wouldn't want to put it back when you were done. It would only be safe to treat the tank with Prazipro while the rock is there, but it often helps fish to settle in and sometimes they will pick at the live rock a lot more than they will anything else. Attaching the nori to the live rock often works very well.

I agree that a larger QT might be a good thing, but it doesn't sound like they are being stressed by that, its only temporary, and they are both quite small. Be careful the water quality doesn't suffer from all the food you are offering them. The majority of reef keepers don't have a bigger quarantine than that and the majority of reef keepers also have tangs.

 

[rendogg]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15310749#post15310749 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lightsluvr
You've been beaten up on the tank size enough... TP in force.

My tangs go after PE (a brand name) frozen mysis. I would soak it in Selcon and drain before feeding. Nori (dried seaweed) is an important staple for the tangs.

Good luck and get them out of the samll tank as soon as possible.

JMHO.

LL

No one is beating anyone up here.... a little dramatic? Comment about the tang police and then recommend a larger tank?.... nice. 20 long is much better than the 20 litres a few of us thought it was, but still too small.

I wouldn't bother with the romaine at all, algae will fulfill their need for greens. It's more nutritious and more natural.

Fish will get "marbles" in their guts if they're thin and they eat sporadically. Three days is too long for a one inch tang to go without food, they were starving.

Gobies and tangs are not comparable fish at all. Nice stab with the commas, helping out is so much fun.

 

[cody6766]

No one is beating anyone up here.... a little dramatic?

I think it was more of a tongue and cheek comment, knowing George...especially because the tang police were only issuing warnings in this thread, no cracking skulls with batons

I have a small scopas tang holding out in my 33g for a few months as an algae controller. I feed a frozen mix of shrimp, scallops, a vitamin enriched prepared frozen food and some coral frenzy, just for grins. I also toss in Nori from time to time. My tang is quick to eat it all as soon as he notices it. He's also a constant swimmer. he loves darting in and out and around my live rock.

BTW, tang police...he wont be with me for long. I'll have him off to a much larger, more appropriate tank in November. I'll be moving and passing him off to a local member with an acceptable tank for a bigger fish

 

[sikpupy]

lol, you all funny

I went on vacation with the nori/gracilaria and romain all in the tank ready to go. They should be good with that, and, technicaly it was from Fri mornin to Sun afternoon, not too bad.

I have been doing 5gal water changes every day and did a 10 gal before I left for vacation. Hopefully that will keep them happy along with te peice of LR in there like mentioned.

Okay, got some selcon and PE mysis, I am off for an attack run.