information needed

[piranhaking]

Im having a slight problem involving a salt water aquarium im working with at my school. The person that started it and the person that has been working on it for the last several months(before i started) have made alot of mistakes, but are hesitant to change and i dont think either of them has really looked into any of the issues. I have been waiting to confront them untill i have some good information from several different sources to back up my arguements. The guy incharge of the tank more or less agrees with me, but neither of us want to offend the people that have been working on the tank so far. I would greatly appreciate if anyone has any links handy to information about these topics. I am open to either side of the arguments and would like to hear about both sides of each issue. Im not askin anyone to do any work, but if anyone has any links saved i would greatly appreciate it.

the issues in question are

the use of an undergravel filter (i see it as a nitrate issue)

large crushed coral substrate (i want sugarsand because of appearance, that is is more suitable to sand dwelling critters based on what ive found, and that the crushed coral traps waste material)

use of a plenum (right now the bed is shallow and is doing no denitrification. i make my plenums with a way to remove the water from them occasionally to combat the potential of undesirable compounds building up in them)

The tank has been set up atleast since August. I mentioned needing to do a water change to remove nitrate to begin getting the tank ready for some hard corals, and the other person said (not directly to me but through the man incharge of the tank, i havent spoken to her personally yet) that the tank was still cycling and we shouldnt change any water. The ammonia and nitrite are 0 the nitrate is 40 ppm. There is very little coraline algae growth and a shallow sand bed, so there wont be any reduction of nitrate, which is what i think is the reason she thinks its still cycling. I know that, but i will need some documentation to prove that to her. I really appreciate any help anyone can offer.

 

[scrmbld33]

this sounds like trouble, 3 people in charge of one tank, i would steer away from the undergravel filter its a detrius trap as you stated, if you go plenum, it has to be sealed in a sense, it like a plate about an 1/" (size may vary) above the bottem of the tank that has no water flow, like a stale spot, so to describe this, bare bottom , plate across whole bottom about 1/2" above bottom, deep sand bed on top, then live rock, it seems your familiar with these types and im guess with success, crushed coral is also a detrius trap

is the tank was started in august, when was the live rock put in? i would think it to be cured by now if it was added in august. unless no water changes/cleaning were done,

i think that you are in for trouble with 2/3 people taking care of a tank that want different styles, i would setup a seperate tank your way, and compare water params and health of the overall system, to me i think youll win, i hope i helped some

 

[scrmbld33]

use here for searching instead of the bar up top

http://reefcentral.com/search.php?s=&menu=11

 

[piranhaking]

im not really sure when the rock was put in but it was before school started this year, but the tank hasnt been set up much longer than that because it had no livestock before i got here(a few hermits i think but nothing more), we already have several fish in the tank, and an anemone that i dont think the tank was ready for because the lighting is to low. Im updating the lighting soon to put it up to 4.5 watts per gallon (3.3 i think now i dont have the info infront of me right now). I think that one of them atleast would be open to changing if i had sources to back up my arguments (i havent had any dealings with the other one yet and i dont think he has much to do with it anymore anyway). I would set up my own tank, but there is only so much money to go around, and i have a couple other projects goin too (58 gallon piranha tank with a dyi wet/dry filter and a brackish puffer tank, ect). The main reason the inital set up was done the way it was done was simply because of lack of education and expence. I have convinced the lab coordinator to let my spend the money to fix it because he knows ill take the time to do it right. Neither of the other people involved have a background in salt water aquariums that i know of, and one has done some research but seemingly very little or i think they would know that the cycle is really over and that ugf are not a very good choice. I know the plenum has to be sealed, what i meant was having an airline tube down into the plenum that is sealed up but can be opened and water drained from the plenum to prevent buildup of phosphate, ect which i know is a very debatable issue, but i figured better safe than sorry. Thanks and thanks in advance to anyone that can help me out with any links to any articles about these things.

 

[scrmbld33]

well some other things would be if the tank is still cycleing , why is their fish in there? do you have a list of equipment, is there a sump skimmer power heads, a pic may help to get you on the right track, also check the new to the hobby forum lots of good reading there, but research form a plan and go with it

 

[piranhaking]

The tank isnt still cycling, thats the point. The other person involved doesnt realize enough to know its done. Im not really asking for advice on the set up here, what im really after is some articles explaining the reasons the ugf and crushed coral are the wrong ideas and explaining that once ammonia and nitrite are consitantly 0 that the tank is cycled and there wont be any noticable removal of nitrate with out either a dsb, plenum, macro algae or large increase of ammount of coraline algae (which there is very little of). I have checked the new to hobby forum and i agree it is very useful and i do have a plan. The issue is that i cant find any in depth explainations of why those things are not very good choices and why there wont be any noticable removal of nitrate with the current setup. I am aware of what needs to be done, but i dont want to go into the discussion with them with only "what i know" to debate with. I want to have some hard factual evidence to support what i have to say. I have been searching, but i have had a hard time finding any thing more than a one line comment in a reply to a post that mentions these issues, and i really need something more indepth to really serve my purpose. that is why i asked for links to articles with such information in them and not just answers to my questions. I have my questions answered, I just need more solid evidence to support my self when we discuss the issues. I dont mean to sound harsh and i appreciate the advice and the help, its just not really what im after here.

 

[wrott]

There will not be any noticable change in nitrate w/ out DSB,large refugium, and/or frequent WCs or a denitryifier (i just ordered a kent bio-slab to put in my sump). CC is just too coarse for this purpose and will collect detritus more than sand.

 

[wrott]

Oh yeah and coralline will do nothing to reduce nitrate--i wish-i have about a half inch of it on 3 walls, a refugium, SSB and too much NO3.

 

[piranhaking]

anyone else have any input here?

 

[piranhaking]

im going to talk to the other person involved tomorrow, any last min. help?