Instant Damsel Deaths - Help a noob :)

[disc1]

You can't use a refugium for a QT. The point of quarantine is that the fish is in a seperate system.

My biggest piece of advise to you is this. If an alk and calcium test kit is too expensive you might be in the wrong hobby. Those are the cheapest of a list of things you desperately need to be successful. I'm not trying to be mean, but doing a reef on the super cheap is a recipe for disaster. You can save a lot of money here and ther and it doesn't have to cost thousands, but you'd better be able to afford a few hundred or your gonna get stuck. IMHO.

 

[manvsfish]

Stingy was right! Buy a refractor. Also before adding any fish make sure your salinity is the same. If your new fish is 1.021 and your tank is 1.021 you're good. Test before you add! It does not matter how long you acclimate your new tank mates. What matters is your salinity. Well also make sure your temp is the same. That takes about 15 minutes by just letting bag sit in your tank. For now I would suggest taking your hydro to LFS and testing against theirs. I would stop what you're doing and go back to research more! Canister=trouble! Ditch the canister or at least take everything out and just use as pump but why? Sump is the way to go! I would hangout more at my LFS! Read more here on this site and slow the role... Just my .02! Good luck...

 

[jcw]

The reason I did a faster acclimation than usual is because I read that post by sk8tr first. The dominos were from the same place so that was another possible reason of the death.

I'm thinking about a QT but not sure about it yet. I might just use the refugium for that.

stingything45 - I said I'm not buying anything else until my tank is stable. I measured my levels with a friends expensive test kits. I just have API's master test kit for saltwater right now. My ammonia was 0 and my nitrate was in between 5 and 10 so I dont know about it not being cycled.

you came to the right place. you'll learn a lot here. develop a thick skin and ignore the overly critical posts. Just remember they all probably made the same mistakes, too.



I'm gonna give you my suggestions. take them or leave them. this is what i've put together from the mistakes i've made in my second go around with this hobby. If you want a GREAT tank for the LONG TERM.

1) qt everything. it will save your main tank from dormant disease and outbreaks. This is the most important thing you can do. Take the time and money to do it right. It might end up costing more than people here say.

this accomplishes two things. It allows you to match the water in your qt to the water from your LFS, perfectly. Temp, pH, salinity. Then all you have to do is float for 10 minutes and transfer the fish (without water) directly into the QT.
Secondly, it allows you to treat prophylactically. You have much better control of parameters in QT without having to worry about LR, CUC, etc.

2) treat everyone. with hypo or copper in QT. I know this is controversial, but the most common post here after DIY LED's seems to be my tank has ich.

3) Anticipate fish loses in QT at the beginning until you get good at it. It's better to lose them in QT than lose them in the display and plant the seeds for long term disese problems.

The time you spend with the QT process allows your main tank to mature while keeping you busy with your new fish.

If your tank is stable, mix new salt and put it in the main tank. do water changes in QT with the display tank water. this assures that you have relatively ammonia free water. (new salt mixes with some ammonia).


good luck

 

[tnias]

Sk8r's acclimation process is critical for fish that have been in a bag for an extended period of time. If you are driving less than an hour from your LFS than you can extend the acclimiation process a little. Dr Foster's sells a pretty neat drip acclimiation device but at this time I think you need to invest in some other equipment.

QT or not to QT is greatly debated. You can certainly proceed without a QT but you need to make sure you understand the risks. If you choose not to QT and one of your fish gets a disease you may not be able to treat it properly without killing your inverts. The most common issue is ich which if it gets into your display tank can only be a hassle to remove, and takes approx. 8 weeks to clear up without any fish in the tank. Imagine your cycling period X2. If you choose to use your refugium to QT it does not protect your DT from diseases of new fish. I lost 3 clown fish in my QT just by bad luck and possible the LFS I was using so I tried another. I just got my first shipment from LIVEAQUARIA.COM and the livestock was healthy and happy. I highly recommend getting fish from them. The only downside to them can be meeting their $29 minimum fish order. I had to get 2 snails that I didn't need to meet the minimum.

I am sure there are many people that have had great success with a canister filter they just require more maintenance than a sump. The Nitrate buildup is bad for the inverts and corals. But if properly maintained I am sure it will work fine. I am lazy so I went with the sump.

I know that refractometers are expensive compared to hydrometers but after a couple months they hydrometer will start to give false readings due to salt buildup.

Patience certainly is a challenge in this hobby and if you choose to move swiftly just be prepared that it is possible to have some problems that could have been avoided. In the end you need to decide how you want to proceed. Once you get past the intial $$$ investment they are much easier than fresh water IMO. Good luck and enjoy the hobby!

 

[mr.iacuessa]

hydrometers should be cleaned with fresh water after every use to avoid salt build up...

 

[stingythingy45]

Dude,these are damsels.They can live in the worst conditions.
And these died in no time.Something is really amiss with your system.
Are you using tap water?

 

[RedM3]

Keep in mind in the saltwater aquarium, your live rock is the biological filtration system. The canister filter tends to do more harm than good since as mentioned before, it can become a nitrate factory without constant attention. You have a lighter amount of live rock though, so that may be affecting the potential bioload your tank can handle - I'd add another 20 lbs if I were you.

The point of a sump is to increase water volume (makes the system more stable) and gives you somewhere to hide equipment such as a heater and protein skimmer so that it gives the tank a cleaner look. It is by no means required and by no means a necessity for success. Since your tank is not pre-drilled, getting a sump set up would probably be more effort and difficulty than it would be worth.

Since you are not currently running a skimmer (I would suggest you get a hang-on-back model), make sure that your powerheads are agitating the surface so that you are oxygenating the water and breaking up surface film.

Beyond what other people said, I just want to reaffirm the importance of a QT. It needs to be separate from your main system so that you can monitor for disease and you do not infect your entire display tank. As someone else mentioned, the acclimation process also becomes very simple - match the salinity of QT to that of the LFS water. Simply float the bag to equalize temperatures and transfer the livestock into the QT. As you're monitoring the fish for disease over several weeks, you can slowly match the salinity of the QT to that of your display. Once the QT period is over and the fish is confirmed healthy, you can simply transfer your fish from the QT to the display, assuming temps are equal.

Also keep in mind a hydrometer can be inaccurate even if you keep it free of salt build up. I invested in a portable refractometer from Foster and Smith (about $45) once I realized I could test water from my tank 3 times in a row with the hydrometer and get 3 different readings. Salinity is the most important part of properly acclimating a fish, so you want to be right on with that!

 

[karsseboom]

So what i would do since you alraedy have added to many fish at once is dont buy anymore fish or inverts. Just chill on the fish you got, buy an overflow and get a 10 gallon tank as your sump and have the water running into the sump, then buy a return pump rated about the same as you overflow drop a skimmer in there for a couple hundred bucks and be done with it. the cheapest skimmer that work well is eshopps about 150 bucks and for your tank i would use a skimmer rated to about 100 gallons or more. When a skimmer say its rated up a 100 gallons dont mean you should ever be used on a 100 gallon tank it just gives you a ball park of what its capacity is. If you have any questions you can pm me and ill walk you through your whole system.

 

[duncantse]

what was the salinity at the LFS compared to your tank? the LFS I buy fish and inverts from has their tanks at SG 1.020 and my tank is 1.025. I have to put them in a bucket and drip acclimate them until the salinity matches, then I put them in. It sounds like your damsels are going into some kind of shock if they are dying so fast. They are supposed to be really hardy fish. definitely look into getting a refractometer as that is way more accurate than a hydrometer. your nitrate levels wouldn't kill a fish that fast so it has to be something with how you acclimated.

+1

Ask your LFS to check their salinity where the domino damselfish was in and then check yours. Fish can handle a drop of salinity but they cant handle a rise.

For the overflowbox/sump/protein skimmer/etc. if your really tight on budget, you can get them slowly. Every few months, get 1 equipment.

As for your cannister filter, there are lots of reef tanks in this forums that don't run a sump but instead a cannister filter/hob filter. Might want to search up the nano tanks section.

Again, lot's of nano reef tanks run without a protein skimmer. The key is weekly water changes. But protein skimmers do really benefit the tank in the long run.

 

[sampster5000]

Thanks for the helpful replies everyone! I can see what is important by reading from a bunch of different people. What made the idea of a sump click in my head was when RedM3 said the purpose is to increase water volume. I never understood the main purpose until I read that. I am considering setting up an overflow but am not sure if I should buy a sump or make one DIY. If someone can send me a link to a cheap sump I will be able to get more of an idea on how much money I'll be spending. We got some extra pumps and a protein skimmer when we bought one of our tanks but had no interest in saltwater at the time. I have to figure out if building a sump for this in sump protein skimmer woulf be cheaper than buying a hang on the back protein skimmer + hang on the back refugium.

I have used canister filters for years. I have never heard of a nitrate build up until I came to this forum. I am big into planted tanks and all you see in this area are canister filters. If you maintain them just like any other filter you will have no problems. The purpose of them is for more flow, forced water through specific media, and increased time between filter maintenance and water changes.

I will consider the QT tank. I thought about it for a long time but was not ready for 2 saltwater tanks all at once. I am fine with maintenance on 1 tank and have the time for it. I will be doing weekly water changes as this is what I do with my planted tanks already. Doing this on 2 saltwater tanks adds a lot more maintenance time that I wanted. I wont be getting fish for a very long time. Hopefully when I'm ready to get my new fish I will have more time for QT'ing, more space, and extra money for more equipment.

Current thoughts update: I will most likely get a refractometer as matching the SG seems very important in the acclimation time. I am still trying to figure out if I want to try a sump (not sure where I can buy one or for how much or if I should make one) or go with hang on back refugium and skimmer. I am ready to spend money which I think people are misunderstanding. I am also ready to not WASTE money when I dont need to. Thanks again!

 

[Lynnmw1208]

I used a 30 gallon tank for a sump and siliconed the baffles in myself. there is tons of info to DIY things to make the cost a bit better. Those fancy pre-made sumps are always too expensive in my opinion. I don't know if you want to drill your tank or not, but I'm glad I did! If you do, check out glass-holes.com and if you don't, check into a hang on the back overflow box. just make sure you get a good one or you can have a flood on your hands. The sump is also nice to hide all your equipment like a protein skimmer and heaters out of sight from the display tank.

hope you figure out what the problem was with the damsels! keep us updated!

 

[sampster5000]

Update on my tank...

I found a really good deal on a 180 gallon and went with it. The seller threw in a HUGE sump for free so I am using that on my 46 gallon. Everything looks a lot better in the main tank with all my equipment being in the sump. So much better! I also got a coralife 125 super skimmer which is also in the sump. I just started setting up the refugium. Not sure what to put in it yet. Was thinking of adding live rock in that area and then trying to find some macro algae or seaweed. Trying to decide if I should use live sand for the refugium or miracle mud...