Intelligent Design / Natural Filtration

Red Macro

Red Macro

Because of the demise of two Tangs in one week, I now have the opportunity to add some decorative macro to 75G Jaubert Plenum.

In the case of some of the Red Grapes that have photoadapted to higher light, I will bring them into this tank. I also will add some more Dragon's Tongue, Halymenia digitata, which will be in a tumble culture in two days.
 

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I like this article thanks for posting. In this study it seems 12-20x tank volume is the ideal turnover rate for this species and what I find interesting is that ammonium was removed at roughly the same rate, lights on and lights off.

Jason

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Take note:- the 12 - 20 tank turn over rate was per day, not per hour.

Also, in regards to the algaes removal of NH4 during the day & night cycle, the difference in removal percentages between the two identified abalone farms; Danger Point and Jacobsbaai, indicates there may be other factors involved. Perhaps bacteria played a significant role?
In any case, a mechanism where-by algae takes up NH4 during darkness must be identified.
 
Take note:- the 12 - 20 tank turn over rate was per day, not per hour.

Also, in regards to the algaes removal of NH4 during the day & night cycle, the difference in removal percentages between the two identified abalone farms; Danger Point and Jacobsbaai, indicates there may be other factors involved. Perhaps bacteria played a significant role?
In any case, a mechanism where-by algae takes up NH4 during darkness must be identified.
Thank you Twinfallz for the correction. Its what happens when one reads too fast.

Yes the percentages were different for each farm but they were consistent from day and night for each, if that makes sense.

Jason

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Thank you Twinfallz for the correction. Its what happens when one reads too fast.

Yes the percentages were different for each farm but they were consistent from day and night for each, if that makes sense.

Jason

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I run a scrubber that grows a species of ulva, so i was interested in the observation that ammonium uptake occured during darkness.

Found this -
Ulva efficiently removed up to 85% of the ammonium from fish pond wastewater in darkness or light independently of temperature fluctuations. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02180927

&

"A preference for amrnonium over nitrate has also been observed in other subinerged macro-phytes, such as Ceratophyllum demersum (Toetz,1971) and Myriophyllum spicatum (Nichols &Keeney, 1976b). In C demersum, nitrate uptake has been found to correlate with light intensity,practically ceasing in the dark, while ammonium uptake was continuous and decreased only slight-ly at night (Toetz, 1971)"
 
With respect to Ulva, the fact that it can be grown in brackish water was of special interest to me. An indoor shrimp farm just south of San Antoine wanted to use Ulva to clean culture water after harvest. Because Gulf shrimp grow in brackish water, Ulva was the perfect macro for nutrient export.
 
I run a scrubber that grows a species of ulva, so i was interested in the observation that ammonium uptake occured during darkness.

Found this -
Ulva efficiently removed up to 85% of the ammonium from fish pond wastewater in darkness or light independently of temperature fluctuations. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02180927

&

"A preference for amrnonium over nitrate has also been observed in other subinerged macro-phytes, such as Ceratophyllum demersum (Toetz,1971) and Myriophyllum spicatum (Nichols &Keeney, 1976b). In C demersum, nitrate uptake has been found to correlate with light intensity,practically ceasing in the dark, while ammonium uptake was continuous and decreased only slight-ly at night (Toetz, 1971)"
According to this article Ulva and possibly other macros uptake ammonium and not nitrate at night as nitrate uptake is dependent on light intensity.

This has me wondering if we should dose something like ammonium chloride at night to help speed up growth and in theory the algae would grow 24/7 and not just with lights on.

I also wonder how uptake of ammonium and the subsequent growth at night affects the ph of the system. I realize that ph is driven by photosynthesis and respiration of the macro, I know this is more complicated than this I'm just making a point, but considering we know nothing about the mechanisms at play who knows.

Jason

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According to this article Ulva and possibly other macros uptake ammonium and not nitrate at night as nitrate uptake is dependent on light intensity.

This has me wondering if we should dose something like ammonium chloride at night to help speed up growth and in theory the algae would grow 24/7 and not just with lights on.

I also wonder how uptake of ammonium and the subsequent growth at night affects the ph of the system. I realize that ph is driven by photosynthesis and respiration of the macro, I know this is more complicated than this I'm just making a point, but considering we know nothing about the mechanisms at play who knows.

Jason

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Jason,
I would not say, we know nothing about the mechanisms at play. You have identified part of the chemistry at play. When you adjust pH in a marine system, the alkalinity of the water acts as a buffer to resist pH change. It is for that reason that aroggonite substrate is a cornerstone of natural filtration. So, instead of only biological filtration we have automatic buffering and trace mineral addition.
 
Smokeless Sump

Smokeless Sump

According to this article Ulva and possibly other macros uptake ammonium and not nitrate at night as nitrate uptake is dependent on light intensity.

This has me wondering if we should dose something like ammonium chloride at night to help speed up growth and in theory the algae would grow 24/7 and not just with lights on.

I also wonder how uptake of ammonium and the subsequent growth at night affects the ph of the system. I realize that ph is driven by photosynthesis and respiration of the macro, I know this is more complicated than this I'm just making a point, but considering we know nothing about the mechanisms at play who knows.

Jason

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Jason,
What could you smoke in your sump? Tuna Fish.

I have a true joke from having worked in “Blue Water for 35 years. After a difficult 6 month shipyard overhaul, when we went back to the deep water, a welding foreman came out with ship. Being in tuna feeding grounds, we fished every evening on the bow of the ship. Many crew members went to this deck just to enjoy the view and fresh air. It became somewhat of a hangout after a 12 hour workday.

One evening, while fishing, I missed landing a yellow fin that I had fought for 30 minutes. My friend looked at me and said for 20 people to hear,

“You can “tune a piano”, but you can’t “tune a fish”.
 
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What could you smoke in your sump? Tuna Fish.
I have a true joke from having worked in "œBlue Water for 35 years. After a difficult 6 month shipyard overhaul, when we went back to the deep water, a welding foreman came out with ship. Being in tuna feeding grounds, we fished every evening on the bow of the ship. Many crew members went to this deck just to enjoy the view and fresh air. It became somewhat of a hangout after a 12 hour workday.

One evening, while fishing, I missed landing a yellow fin that I had fought for 30 minutes. My friend looked at me and said for 20 people to hear,

"œYou can "œtune a piano", but you can't "œtune a fish".
Thanks for the joke

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I finally caught up on this thread...trying to catch up on too many at once, LOL. Great read. BTW, your tank looks great!
 
I finally caught up on this thread...trying to catch up on too many at once, LOL. Great read. BTW, your tank looks great!

Thanks. This morning, I got up with the sun to check out my outside growout. Temperature all day yesterday was in the thirty’s with a low of 28 this morning.

With 900W of heat input water temperature of 400G was 60 degrees. I have got to cover tanks on these cold nights.
 
I decided to review this long rambling thread on natural filtration to include cryptic sponges as the third leg of biofiltration in our reef tanks: bacteria, algae & cryptic sponges.

Dutch research scientist have shown how cryptic sponges deal with dissolved organic carbon that determines the types of bacteria and their densities in our reef tanks.



Given the volume of DOM (dissolved organic matter) & DOC (dissolved organic carbon) that cryptic sponges absorb researchers hypothesized that cryptic sponges should double in size every 6 hours except for the amount of detritus exudates given off. This detritus is home for MULM, which is the beginning of the microbial loop which moves carbon up the food chain.


  • paul b
    Oracle Reefer
  • WAMAS Speaker
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Island NY
June 10, 2016
I think one of the most important, and least understood or mentioned things in a reef tank is "mulm". That stuff that grows in the dark portions of a tank if it is set up long enough. "Mulm" is a combination of algae, sponges, bacteria, pods, worms, detritus, poop and any thing else that can be propagated or grown in the dark. I realize most people would immediately get out the sponge, razor blade or grenade to remove it but there is a word I like to use to describe those people. That word is "wrong". Mulm is a natural product that you will find in the sea all over the world. Our tanks run on bacteria, algae and a food chain. Bacteria and a food chain are dependent on having a place to reproduce. Mulm is the perfect place. Rocks and glass are flat surfaces that are only two dimensional. Mulm makes these places three dimensional allowing much more space for bacteria and microscopic organisms to grow and do the macarana. (Then love to dance) Pods, which are needed for any small fish also need to eat and their numbers are directly related to how much food they can get their hands on (or whatever pods use to eat with) The more food, the more pods, the more pods, the easier to keep smaller fish. Larger fish such as copperbands and angels also eat pods.
Many people try to keep fish such as pipefish, mandarins or other dragonettes in a sterile tank and while feeding them a couple of times a day with tiger pods or some other expensive food. Those types of fish will not live for long in such a tank and they certainly won't spawn which I consider the "only" criteria to determine the state of health for any paired fish.
Mulm (after a while, maybe a few years) should grow on the back and sides of glass as well as under rocks.
Here in this picture of my clingfish, the mulm appears green. It is really brownish and that fish is on the side of my tank. I brightened up the picture and turned it sideways because it was in the dark and the fish was hard to see.
There is a thick layer of it on the back of my tank where my mandarins and pipefish like to hunt. My long spined urchin also grazes there most of the time as there is not much algae in my tank for him to eat. He is many years old as are the mandarins and pipefish and they are dependent on this food source.
A sterile tank IMO is the biggest problem we have keeping certain fish healthy.
Sterile is good in an operating room but very bad in a tank.

Thank you @Paul B and @Timfish for this evolution in my reefkeeping methods.
 
I decided to review this long rambling thread on natural filtration to include cryptic sponges as the third leg of biofiltration in our reef tanks: bacteria, algae & cryptic sponges.
Thanks Patrick
 
Just did some major rearrangements in 25yr mature 75G display. I removed some large GSP covered live rock to bring to LFS and get stuff like this purple tip anemone.
 

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