Interesting Question

[slapshot]

Awhilwe ago I posed this question to Gresham:

"The only reason I wonder if wet is better is because it is more usable. One of the main reason I like Reeds products. Any idea what the decomposition rate is? Is it really bad, as decomposition I would think would involve bacteria which may in itself become a food source. I ask these questions out of ignorance. I really want to know. I may be doing it all wrong."

Wondering what the thoughts are of the group? Currently, I feed mine wet. I am still wondering if that is best or not. The bacteria could be good, but the food deteriorating. I asked the question of the Fauna people and they told me under refrigerated conditions their food should last a week. Is the deterioration is good, as the bacteria itself could become a food source?

 

[uhuru]

Well not all bacteria are good, and the ones that feed on decomposing food tend to be bad. A marine microbiologist could probably answer that better though. BUT, the thing is I've tried many methods of feeding and there is a big difference between mixing the dry foods and then leaving it at room temp, or mixing it and feeding it from a fridge. With the fridge I only make it enough to last 1 day, and I don't notice any problems from doing that. Not even any noticeable odor. I'm sure my N & P are higher than for someone that doesn't do things the way I do, but I do enough water changes and have enough filtration in my system that it hasn't become a problem for me. So to answer your question, for me no it's not that bad.

 

[GreshamH]

I asked two PHD's, one Phycolopgist and one microbiologist this very question today. The real questions are far more complicated then the simple question posed to me above.

Once a dry food is wet, it starts to decompose. Once a product is bottled it starts to decompose. How fast that is depends on what preservation method is used. How fast it decomposes once it hits that water depends on that and a ton of other factors. Judging decomposition is not a simple task. You can't just poll out a mysis or rotifer from the mix and test it.

FWIW I am pretty darn sure I replied to that email, right?

 

[aninjaatemyshoe]

Fauna Marin used to encourage people to mix their foods into a mash and let it sit at room temperature to, in effect, foul with bacteria. I'm not sure if they are still encouraging that... an English translation of the updated feeding instructions has been pending for months now.

Realistically, this kind of question cannot be answered based on any current theories because we simply do not have the facilities, as hobbiests, to answer the fundamental questions, such as what bacteria is growing, is it getting ingested by our corals, and how does it affect the food's quality/nutritional content. Furthermore, what works for one NPS coral/invert does not necessarily work for others. The only thing we can do is experiment and see what results we get, which is what it's going to take.

 

[slapshot]

FWIW I am pretty darn sure I replied to that email, right?

No worries. I am just opening it up for discussion. Mainly because the answer is a none answer and I thought it would be a good discussion. Not anything you did or said just a fact. I am trying to figure out if I should be feeding my fauna foods dry or wet. Since it is a difficult question, maybe impossible to answer I thought I would toss it out here and see if we can come to a consensus.

 

[slapshot]

Fauna Marin used to encourage people to mix their foods into a mash and let it sit at room temperature to, in effect, foul with bacteria. I'm not sure if they are still encouraging that... an English translation of the updated feeding instructions has been pending for months now.

Realistically, this kind of question cannot be answered based on any current theories because we simply do not have the facilities, as hobbiests, to answer the fundamental questions, such as what bacteria is growing, is it getting ingested by our corals, and how does it affect the food's quality/nutritional content. Furthermore, what works for one NPS coral/invert does not necessarily work for others. The only thing we can do is experiment and see what results we get, which is what it's going to take.

Totally correct, but we have to start the conversation in order to break new ground. For example, my scleros have all but shriveled up. I still have good polyp extention but it is only an inch high instead of the 6 inches it started at. Clearly my feeding method isn't working for them. If someone was feeding dry and it was working I want to know that. Then I want to know why it is working so I can apply it to other animals. These food companies need to be figuring this stuff out if we are going to be able to keep Azoox stuff and spend the amount of money on the food that we are. Its's in their interest in order to grow this part of the hobby. I am hoping to stimulate them into action also. It is mainly a question to the dry food makers as RN already preserve theirs.

 

[uhuru]

I'm with you guys on this! There are so many variables involved that we really do need the help from the bigger companies, as well as a much bigger base of azoox coral keepers. There just aren't enough of us YET to get enough data together. Then you have the people that don't really like to share anything other than success stories, when we learn just as much if not more from the failures. What we need to do is combine all of our data and literally sit down and chart out what has worked and what hasn't.

We should start a thread specifically for dendronephthya, and a thread specifically for scleronephthya, where ALL WE DO is list our observations. No questions about care or ID. Just a thread for people trying to keep these corals to list success and failures and discuss them. Would be a great way to start azoox.org too.

 

[GreshamH]

Totally correct, but we have to start the conversation in order to break new ground. For example, my scleros have all but shriveled up. I still have good polyp extention but it is only an inch high instead of the 6 inches it started at. Clearly my feeding method isn't working for them. If someone was feeding dry and it was working I want to know that. Then I want to know why it is working so I can apply it to other animals. These food companies need to be figuring this stuff out if we are going to be able to keep Azoox stuff and spend the amount of money on the food that we are. Its's in their interest in order to grow this part of the hobby. I am hoping to stimulate them into action also. It is mainly a question to the dry food makers as RN already preserve theirs.

FM products are "preserved" as well.... at least I know the LPS pellets are, it's listed on the package (antioxidants = preservative).

You will be HARD pressed to find a dry feed that is not "preserved" in some manor. Most use Ethoxiquin, heck, even frozen Cyclop-Eeze uses it.

 

[uhuru]

Yes the FM powder foods are also preserved which is why they say its ok to keep them in the fridge for 1 week.

 

[GreshamH]

That was in response to Slapshots comment..

It is mainly a question to the dry food makers as RN already preserve theirs.

 

[slapshot]

I'm with you guys on this! There are so many variables involved that we really do need the help from the bigger companies, as well as a much bigger base of azoox coral keepers. There just aren't enough of us YET to get enough data together. Then you have the people that don't really like to share anything other than success stories, when we learn just as much if not more from the failures. What we need to do is combine all of our data and literally sit down and chart out what has worked and what hasn't.

We should start a thread specifically for dendronephthya, and a thread specifically for scleronephthya, where ALL WE DO is list our observations. No questions about care or ID. Just a thread for people trying to keep these corals to list success and failures and discuss them. Would be a great way to start azoox.org too.

That's a great idea! For example I can't keep a sclero but my dendronephthyas are growing, or at least not shrinking. Completley backwards I know. So clearly I'm doing something right for one but not the other. If someone else was having the oposite experience it could help solve my problem meanwhile someone could try something else to keep the scleros. We would not be duplicating ourselves, wasting time, money and animals. Then is we can get the food companies to share some information much as Gresham does then it would be a win for all.

 

[Aquabacs]

Mike hopefully very very soon the site should be launched...there has been a few delays but a great idea to break down each coral. As each of our systems are individually unique, we still can find trends between our systems in keeping specific corals alive. By the way, I have killed plenty in my time and not proud to say, I will kill more in the future, but in the process, learning more each day.


Mike

I'm with you guys on this! There are so many variables involved that we really do need the help from the bigger companies, as well as a much bigger base of azoox coral keepers. There just aren't enough of us YET to get enough data together. Then you have the people that don't really like to share anything other than success stories, when we learn just as much if not more from the failures. What we need to do is combine all of our data and literally sit down and chart out what has worked and what hasn't.

We should start a thread specifically for dendronephthya, and a thread specifically for scleronephthya, where ALL WE DO is list our observations. No questions about care or ID. Just a thread for people trying to keep these corals to list success and failures and discuss them. Would be a great way to start azoox.org too.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk

 

[uhuru]

Started a new study group: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1935197