Introduction issue, what to do?
- Thread starter Guillaume
- Start date
CUNAReefer
New member
Hi Guillaume,
I think that the coral in question may have been a victim of several contributing factors that ultimately lead to its demise. I wouldn't beat yourself up over it. We all make mistakes.
I would like to make a couple suggestions that should help you. Let’s begin with some very frequent testing (I suggest daily) combined with a Ca/Alk/mg dosing regimen that will get your parameters in order. Here is a link that will help with the math:
http://www.reeftime.com/reef-chemistry-calculator.asp
You want to know exactly how your tank consumes Alk/Ca/Mg. Once you figure this out from your increased testing, you can automate your dosing. You want to ensure that you acquire a stable environment to promote sustained growth. Here are some general guidelines pulled from the Red Sea Program.
Recommended water parameters for accelerated coral growth
• Algae nutrient levels of 1 – 2 ppm nitrate and 0.1 ppm phosphate; to maintain a relatively high
population of Zooxanthellae that will provide enough energy to the corals for growth.
• Boosted and balanced levels of the Foundation Elements [Alkalinity 12.6dKH / 4.5meq/L, Ca
465ppm, Mg 1390ppm] to properly utilize all of the extra energy
• Availability of the minor and trace elements (Coral Colors) taken up by the corals during growth [I2
0.06ppm, K 410ppm, Fe 0.15ppm]
• Sufficient coral nutrients (Reef Energy) to supplement the energy supplied by the Zooxanthellae
[2ml of Reef Energy A & B per 100Liter/25gal]
Recommended water parameters for enhanced coloration
• Algae nutrient levels of 0.25 ppm nitrate and 0.02 ppm phosphate; to maintain a reduced level
of Zooxanthellae, reducing the brownish tint of the corals and inducing the protection response of
enhanced coloration.
• Reduced levels of the Foundation Elements [Alkalinity 8.2dKH / 2.9meq/L, Ca 430ppm, Mg
1310ppm]to lower the energy demand from coral growth
• Availability of the minor and trace elements (Coral Colors) used in the soft tissue for increased
coloration [I2 0.06ppm, K 380ppm, Fe 0.15ppm]
• Increased coral nutrients (Reef Energy) to provide the additional energy that the coral needs to
receive from the environment [4ml of Reef Energy A & B per 100Liter/25gal]
On a final note, do ensure that the coral specimen that you plan to bring home is healthy. Even the best tanks in the world can suffer the loss of a new addition if the coral was never healthy to begin with.
I wish you the best of luck with your future coral purchases.
Warmest Regards,
James
I think that the coral in question may have been a victim of several contributing factors that ultimately lead to its demise. I wouldn't beat yourself up over it. We all make mistakes.
I would like to make a couple suggestions that should help you. Let’s begin with some very frequent testing (I suggest daily) combined with a Ca/Alk/mg dosing regimen that will get your parameters in order. Here is a link that will help with the math:
http://www.reeftime.com/reef-chemistry-calculator.asp
You want to know exactly how your tank consumes Alk/Ca/Mg. Once you figure this out from your increased testing, you can automate your dosing. You want to ensure that you acquire a stable environment to promote sustained growth. Here are some general guidelines pulled from the Red Sea Program.
Recommended water parameters for accelerated coral growth
• Algae nutrient levels of 1 – 2 ppm nitrate and 0.1 ppm phosphate; to maintain a relatively high
population of Zooxanthellae that will provide enough energy to the corals for growth.
• Boosted and balanced levels of the Foundation Elements [Alkalinity 12.6dKH / 4.5meq/L, Ca
465ppm, Mg 1390ppm] to properly utilize all of the extra energy
• Availability of the minor and trace elements (Coral Colors) taken up by the corals during growth [I2
0.06ppm, K 410ppm, Fe 0.15ppm]
• Sufficient coral nutrients (Reef Energy) to supplement the energy supplied by the Zooxanthellae
[2ml of Reef Energy A & B per 100Liter/25gal]
Recommended water parameters for enhanced coloration
• Algae nutrient levels of 0.25 ppm nitrate and 0.02 ppm phosphate; to maintain a reduced level
of Zooxanthellae, reducing the brownish tint of the corals and inducing the protection response of
enhanced coloration.
• Reduced levels of the Foundation Elements [Alkalinity 8.2dKH / 2.9meq/L, Ca 430ppm, Mg
1310ppm]to lower the energy demand from coral growth
• Availability of the minor and trace elements (Coral Colors) used in the soft tissue for increased
coloration [I2 0.06ppm, K 380ppm, Fe 0.15ppm]
• Increased coral nutrients (Reef Energy) to provide the additional energy that the coral needs to
receive from the environment [4ml of Reef Energy A & B per 100Liter/25gal]
On a final note, do ensure that the coral specimen that you plan to bring home is healthy. Even the best tanks in the world can suffer the loss of a new addition if the coral was never healthy to begin with.
I wish you the best of luck with your future coral purchases.
Warmest Regards,
James
Last edited:
Thanks James for this link. I was using this one but today I got some problem getting the site calculating. http://reef.diesyst.com/flashcalc/flashcalc.html
And thanks for your inputs.
My real challenge is to find a way to reduce my Ph to dose more often Kalk, as I was doing during winter, windows closed and full CO2 in the house. I red Holmes-Farley articles on this but appart from dosing mineral water or vinegar(I got a not conclusive experience with it in the past), the next idea is to start using seperate Alk Ca dosing with Holmes-Farley receipe, which mean some investments.
And thanks for your inputs.
My real challenge is to find a way to reduce my Ph to dose more often Kalk, as I was doing during winter, windows closed and full CO2 in the house. I red Holmes-Farley articles on this but appart from dosing mineral water or vinegar(I got a not conclusive experience with it in the past), the next idea is to start using seperate Alk Ca dosing with Holmes-Farley receipe, which mean some investments.
I dont use kalk for many reasons. In some ways I feel it is not worth the risk.
I honestly just use baking soda in my ato and keeps my alk between 9.1 and highest 9.8
And just seperately does calcium and magnesium which isnt much at all and I do have a SPS dom tank. I only lost soem corals to STN due to temp being too low when the temp recently changed and it was only at 74.5 degrees.
But if you have an SPS dom system, it would be worth the money to look into a calcium reactor
I honestly just use baking soda in my ato and keeps my alk between 9.1 and highest 9.8
And just seperately does calcium and magnesium which isnt much at all and I do have a SPS dom tank. I only lost soem corals to STN due to temp being too low when the temp recently changed and it was only at 74.5 degrees.
But if you have an SPS dom system, it would be worth the money to look into a calcium reactor
CUNAReefer
New member
Your very welcome, Guillaume. I'm assuming that you want to use Kalk as your sole means of Alk and Ca support. I have a couple solutions that you can use in conjunction with the Kalk Dosing. If your looking to add alk without the increase in Ph, you can add Baking Soda. If you want to add Calcium, add Calcium Chloride. If you want to add both AND lower your Ph, add a Calcium Reactor. You will need to perform some more frequent testing to find out what your tank demands are.
Personally, I use Kalk, a Calcium Reactor, and Calcium Chloride to maintain my parameters. Every tank is different, but I am postive that you can find a dosing regimen that can support your needs.
James
Thanks James. Good summary of the solutions available.
I want to avoid the use of a Calcium reactor and like Kalk for equal addition of Alk and Ca.
Would a balanced receipt in term of Alk and Ca of bacing soda and Calcium chloride exists? Then I may avoid the Ph increase of Kalk. I never seen anything about such receipt. It may be a nice dream.
I want to avoid the use of a Calcium reactor and like Kalk for equal addition of Alk and Ca.
Would a balanced receipt in term of Alk and Ca of bacing soda and Calcium chloride exists? Then I may avoid the Ph increase of Kalk. I never seen anything about such receipt. It may be a nice dream.
Thanks Sponger.
Interesting that you can just dose baking soda and, from what I understand, you dose manually, so readjust when required, your Ca and Mag. I like the simplicity of it.
May I ask you the size of your tank to assess the volume of SPS you have?
On my side (and I don't understand why my signature with these info don't show off), I jumped from a well packed 65g to a 150g now well open (same rocks and corals, some sps added recently).
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2130563&page=3
Sorry for this : recipe, mix
CUNAReefer
New member
Absolutely! As you already mentioned, Kalkwasser is a balanced form of Ca and Alk. Sometimes, as in the case of my tank, your calcium or alk demand may outpace the other (Ca demand outpaces alk in my case). This calls for the addition of 2 part additives to keep the parameters where you would like them to be. Your first stop for additives will be bulkreefsupply.com. They are a sponsor and one of my favorite vendors. They have all the equipment and additivies needed. If you use a reef calculator as in the one I provided above, it will tell you exactly how much to add. I prefer dosers for accuracy, but you can add a quick shot of each to your tank and maintain your ca/alk needs perfectly.
Just a quick note. You never mix the two part additives together. They are added one at a time with a couple minutes in between additions.
Yes I do dose manually for the most part. But it did take some observation. I tested my tank several times a week to get some sort of caliber of what was being using. After a few weeks, I was able to look at my chart and figure out what was being used.
The most vital to me was alk as I wanted it to be as stable as could be. I use my ATO for the alk and noticed that my ATO comes on roughly every hour or so to fill the sump. I also observed that my alk dropped 1 point everyday. And I would lose 1 gallon a day. My tank is a 40 breeder with a 29 gallon sump. Total volume is 55 gallons and knowing that 1 teaspoon of baking soda will raise 50 gallons by 1 point in alk. So I just started putting 1 teaspoon per gallon in my ATO resevoir. And my alk is extremely stable and has mad my system really start to bloom.
My calcium is used about 20 ppm per day. So every 2 days I dose 4 capfuls of Seachem Calcium.
My mag varies depending on the water change. Sometimes its higher. Sometimes lower. But I typically only does mag once a week. I bring it up to 1450 and that usually lasts a week for me or until my next water change, but I have been testing my system to do a water change every 2 weeks.
My stock is as such, approximately 20 different SPS, 9 LPS, and 12 zoas/palys.
I still do test eveyr 2-4 days based on my schedule...but this dosing regimen has worked very well and made my system very easy to maintain. Sometimes I almost feel like I dont have to do anything but feed and clean the glass off.
The most vital to me was alk as I wanted it to be as stable as could be. I use my ATO for the alk and noticed that my ATO comes on roughly every hour or so to fill the sump. I also observed that my alk dropped 1 point everyday. And I would lose 1 gallon a day. My tank is a 40 breeder with a 29 gallon sump. Total volume is 55 gallons and knowing that 1 teaspoon of baking soda will raise 50 gallons by 1 point in alk. So I just started putting 1 teaspoon per gallon in my ATO resevoir. And my alk is extremely stable and has mad my system really start to bloom.
My calcium is used about 20 ppm per day. So every 2 days I dose 4 capfuls of Seachem Calcium.
My mag varies depending on the water change. Sometimes its higher. Sometimes lower. But I typically only does mag once a week. I bring it up to 1450 and that usually lasts a week for me or until my next water change, but I have been testing my system to do a water change every 2 weeks.
My stock is as such, approximately 20 different SPS, 9 LPS, and 12 zoas/palys.
I still do test eveyr 2-4 days based on my schedule...but this dosing regimen has worked very well and made my system very easy to maintain. Sometimes I almost feel like I dont have to do anything but feed and clean the glass off.
Yes, I was looking for a balanced Alk and Ca mix that, contrary to Kalk, would not jump the Ph. Hloms-Farley had a recipe to add vinegar to Kalk reducing then the Ph. But this was not perfect since I means adding carbon and don't want to do it now.
Your explanations brings me to seperate dosing of Alk and Ca. Which means, as I tought before, the addition of a third dosing: RODI water for evaporation.
However, the explanations of Sponger make me think I could maybe dose Alk on one side, with a diluted recipe of baking soda, so a diluted version of the Holmes-Farley two part recipe.
Then I could dose on the second bucket already set up (I got one for dosing pure water, the other for Kalk, and don't want to plug a RODI with floating valve to avoid a desastrous malfunction of it) a Ca diluted mix made with Calcium chloride. Both dosing would be adjusted with tank Alk Ca consumption and would fill the evaporation needs at the same time. Assuming this rate is the same all year round (which is probably not the case since my temp goes from 76 in winter to 81 in summer following natural temp switch provided by the controller, in order to reduce evaporation during winter, and window humidity).
What do you think about this?
Evaporation difference make me think I would still need a third doser just for water.
I finaly did a lugol bath 15 minutes, broken down the colony in four frag with what was still good, trying to remove and or cover the sick tissues with epoxy.
I'm hesitating to put them back in the tank because of cross contamination. Any experience with it ?
Plan B is a 10g quarantine tank without proper lighting for sps (just for fishes).
I'm hesitating to put them back in the tank because of cross contamination. Any experience with it ?
Plan B is a 10g quarantine tank without proper lighting for sps (just for fishes).
