Invertebrate only tank

[Noah 123]

I'm wanting to start a little 10 gallon tank for different invertebrates, and I'm wondering if my planned stock would work out fine. There will be NO coral. I'm wanting to do:

2 blue leg hermit crabs
2 zebra hermit crabs
1 scarlet reef hermit crab
1 nassarius snail
1 astrea snail
1 emerald mithrax crab
1 porcelain crab
1 peppermint shrimp
1 sexy shrimp
1 red figi fromia sea star
1 blue tuxedo urchin
MAYBE:
1 pompom crab
1 tiger pistol shrimp
1 brittle star


1. Is this too much for a 10 gallon?
2. Will all the inhabitants cooperate (as long as I feed them)?
3. I know fromia stars are generally only recommended for huge tanks because they only eat microscopic organisms and sponges but figi fromias only get to 2" and I have proof they will accept flake food and pellets.
4. Tuxedo urchins only eat specific algae so are not usually recommended for smaller tanks, but once again I have proof of them accepting dried seaweed.
5. Would the brittle star do fine in this tank? My dad would like to have one.
6. Are sexy shrimp too small and delicate to be with these tank mates? And do they need to be in pairs?
7. Any other suggestions for neat inverts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks :lol2:

 

[snorvich]

It is difficult to provide advice when some of the advice I would provide goes against the "proof" you have to the contrary.

 

[Noah 123]

My proof is that I've seen someone I know's fromia star and tuxedo urchin eating flake food and seaweed.

I would like to hear your advice though.

 

[Whiterabbitrage]

Noah are you sure they were eating and not just laying on the food? How old is the fromia? If your friend has only had it a few months, I would discount his claims. I'm skeptical that a fromia, no matter where it's from, would eat something so drastically different than others of its same species. It doesn't make since. I Don't want to hurt your feelings, ok?
Also, I don't know if Steve will bother to answer, since your mind is already made up.

 

[hotelbravo]

My proof is that I've seen someone I know's fromia star and tuxedo urchin eating flake food and seaweed.

I would like to hear your advice though.

if the star was actually eating flake food and seaweed than you have witnessed something countless of researchers have been unable to replicate. i think they were just resting on the food as they have been seen doing from time to time.

 

[Calappidae]

I wouldn't brag if you know or had a fromia for less than a year, even the tiniest drop of food it finds in the home aquarium preserves it from dying, but it is indeed starving the whole time.

Otherwise... The brittle star gets too big (all stars do bar asterina) and the tuxedo may be a little destructive in a 10g. The tiger pistol will need a lot more room (you can have Randal pistol shrimp though) and there is a likely hood the emerald crab may hurt the other livestock.

 

[Shawn O]

Dwarf Zebra hermits get a bit larger than the blue legs and Scarlets but will be fine. Electric blue/orange Knuckles and Halloween hermits get a bit larger than that and may be too large in that tank with all the other livestock you plan. Good small hermits are red tips, yellow tips, scarlets, zebras and blue legs. Might be better to do a 20 long for that stock list.

Regarding eating habits of certain animals, just because something may eat nori, flake or pellets it does not mean that it can survive on it. Certain animals require particular food items and will starve if these food items are not given in appropriate quantities.

Best of luck with your invert tank.

 

[Noah 123]

The fromia has been in the tank for 2 years

 

[Betta132]

I would highly suggest a larger aquarium. A 10g is very small and will be difficult to keep stable. At the very least, you should start with a 20g.
If you are absolutely certain that you have somehow found a fromia species that survives in captivity, then you can try it. However, I'm still highly skeptical. Are you certain it's been the same star for two years?
Be sure to include a lot of extra shells for the hermits, to lower their incentive to kill snails.

 

[Noah 123]

I would highly suggest a larger aquarium. A 10g is very small and will be difficult to keep stable. At the very least, you should start with a 20g.
If you are absolutely certain that you have somehow found a fromia species that survives in captivity, then you can try it. However, I'm still highly skeptical. Are you certain it's been the same star for two years?
Be sure to include a lot of extra shells for the hermits, to lower their incentive to kill snails.

It is the same star he got 2 years ago.

The tank has to be a 10g, I have a spare that used to house fiddler crabs and it already has a filter, heater, and everything.

 

[Noah 123]

I decided that if I'm gonna do this tank I want to lower the amount of creatures in it.

How about:

2 blue leg hermits
1 scarlet reef hermit
1 zebra hermit
1 astrea snail
1 nassarius snail
1 cerith snail
1 emerald crab
1 peppermint shrimp
1 feather duster worm
1 red Figi fromia star (I'm gonna try it and see how it works out, if it does not work I won't get another as I am not for killing animals.)

 

[Calappidae]

Just keep in mind, fromia and linckia are two starfish that people have being trying to preserve and keep alive in home aquaria in systems as little as 125 gallon (yes, I called a 125 little, these stars need BIG long established systems) with no success for generations. Some folk have gotten extremely lucky with evidence to support their survival claims, such as "linckia ate asterina, photos and video provided", but the majority, if not all the time.. people misunderstand the starvation phase, for the "it's still alive so it's healthy" perspective of things.

Starfish can live a good while without food, estimated 2-3 weeks I'd guess.. that's 1 month a person may keep a fromia, and assume it's doing all fine and dandy..and of course, that month can be extended with a small trace of food found in the crack of a rock, prolonging it a few more weeks or months until malnutrition.

Since anything can come on live rock, including the invisible film algea (their only diet), occasionally you have a happy starfish which does infact have food to eat, and continues to behave normally for a year.. however it will always eventually run out since the starfish eats faster than the film grows..

This puts fromia in a similar position to horseshoe crabs, sandsifting starfish, and twin spot gobies, animals that all should be left in the ocean due to their guarenteed death via starvation after eating their food source dry. (I'm skeptical about the HC one.. not sure if target feeding that tons of food is possible in a giantantic footprint tank.)

Honestly, it's just a waste of life even showing demand for them. If 1/1000 people do successfully keep them, that's still 999 people with many dead stars. I get people want to be that lucky myth buster who shuts everybody up with their success story, but one person doesn't make up for thousands of failed atempts from others killing stars.

Anyway, at the end of the day, a minimal recommendation for a fromia is claimed to be between 125-55 gallons that's atleast a year established. (Not that fromias are actually recommended at all)

 

[Shawn O]

I decided that if I'm gonna do this tank I want to lower the amount of creatures in it.

How about:

2 blue leg hermits
1 scarlet reef hermit
1 zebra hermit
1 astrea snail
1 nassarius snail
1 cerith snail
1 emerald crab
1 peppermint shrimp
1 feather duster worm
1 red Figi fromia star (I'm gonna try it and see how it works out, if it does not work I won't get another as I am not for killing animals.)

On second thought, I'd skip the Zebra and go for another Scarlet. The zebras have pretty big appetites and I've seen mine eat several 1-2" shrimp in a couple weeks time. Not saying it killed the shrimp, just that they can eat that much.
You could do a couple each of the snails. Skip the Emerald crab, it will likely get too big for comfort in that tank. A good alternative would be a porcelain crab, my Anemone Porcelain crab is pretty laid back and just hangs out on the rocks. I wouldn't suggest any starfish in a 10 gallon tank, except for maybe a micro-brittle star.

 

[gogo7]

i'd like to add my 2 cents.
i agree with joe on the starfish.
i kept an orange linckia in a four gallon display vase, fed it expensive
new live rock every week or so, even had it taking shrimp pellets every few days. it still starved. there's something in the bio film that that cannot be replaced by other feeding strategies. took eight months. better to stick to small asterinas and micro brittles. less bioload and more delicate looking.
as far as other inverts go, you can stock that babie to the rim.
i'd pick one species of hermit and stick with it. the blue legs will kill the scarlets in a small space. get two the same size. forget about the zebra. my experience is negative with that species. same with the emerald. you can put two peppermints in that vase and a plus one to the porcelein crabs. i have three in my four gallon. you'll need some corals or something for them to hang out on. they rarely move from their perch. they also breed. also a pair of pompoms will look good.
the trick is to plan out what you want and add them in accordingly.
i also recommend a 'dsb' with a pair of randalls pistol shrimps. the tunneling effect will add extra interest to the amazing small space you have created. if you have a dsb, you can increase the amount of feather dusters you can put in. you'll need to supplement their diet with some form of phyto to guarantee success.
try some different snails as well. there are all sorts out there... the trick is to get them when their small.
all the best with it. i'm interested in seeing pics.

 

[ginpang]

Yup..... drop the zebra hermit , emerald crab, starfish and urchin. Unless you get lucky and are able to buy for cheap a mini brittle star that hitchhiked a rock at your lfs.
Halloween crab and porcelain are good choices.... Then you could have your sexy shrimp! You could also get bumble bee shrimp they're little but gorgeous. [emoji6]

 

[sam.basye]

Something to think about:
I introduced a serpent start (maybe 4" leg to leg) to my tank and I found it up against the glass with its legs mutilated from dropping down into my pistol shrimps burrow (26g tank).

Not sure if stars and pistol shrimps are compatible in small tanks because of this experience.

 

[Noah 123]

A new option has opened up for me. Convert my 20g freshwater to salt. In that could I do:

6 blue leg hermit crabs
4 scarlet reef hermit crabs
2 astrea snails
2 nassarius snails
1 cerith snail
1 emerald crab
1 porcelain crab
1 peppermint shrimp
1 camel shrimp
1 feather duster worm
1 brittle star
1 blue tuxedo urchin
1 sapphire blue damselfish

 

[nmotz]

I really want to have an all invert tank one day too. I'd fill it with every type of exotic cleaner/pistol/anemone shrimp I could find. But it'd take careful planning to diminish the territoriality factor.

 

[Shawn O]

A new option has opened up for me. Convert my 20g freshwater to salt. In that could I do:

6 blue leg hermit crabs
4 scarlet reef hermit crabs
2 astrea snails
2 nassarius snails
1 cerith snail
1 emerald crab
1 porcelain crab
1 peppermint shrimp
1 camel shrimp
1 feather duster worm
1 brittle star
1 blue tuxedo urchin
1 sapphire blue damselfish

sure.

 

[fabulousfavia]

I'm wanting to start a little 10 gallon tank for different invertebrates, and I'm wondering if my planned stock would work out fine. There will be NO coral. I'm wanting to do:



2 blue leg hermit crabs

2 zebra hermit crabs

1 scarlet reef hermit crab

1 nassarius snail

1 astrea snail

1 emerald mithrax crab

1 porcelain crab

1 peppermint shrimp

1 sexy shrimp

1 red figi fromia sea star

1 blue tuxedo urchin

MAYBE:

1 pompom crab

1 tiger pistol shrimp

1 brittle star





1. Is this too much for a 10 gallon?

2. Will all the inhabitants cooperate (as long as I feed them)?

3. I know fromia stars are generally only recommended for huge tanks because they only eat microscopic organisms and sponges but figi fromias only get to 2" and I have proof they will accept flake food and pellets.

4. Tuxedo urchins only eat specific algae so are not usually recommended for smaller tanks, but once again I have proof of them accepting dried seaweed.

5. Would the brittle star do fine in this tank? My dad would like to have one.

6. Are sexy shrimp too small and delicate to be with these tank mates? And do they need to be in pairs?

7. Any other suggestions for neat inverts would be greatly appreciated.



Thanks :lol2:

The hermit crabs will eat your snails if they run out of food, the emerald crabs tend to be aggressive, porcelain crabs are sensitive and delicate, peppermint shrimp will be fine if in a fair sized group they will also be fine with porcelain crabs, if you want sexy shrimp you should get an anemone and more than one, I don't know about the sea star but from your description it will most likely starve, the tuxedo urchin is best left alone with smaller tanks, all of your maybes will be fine. I have been wanting a tank like this for years and am finally setting up a touch tank starring horseshoe crabs. My ideal stocking list for a tank like that would be nassarius snails, turbo snails, bumblebee snails, scarlet cleaner shrimp or a banded coral shrimp, Pom Pom crabs, coco worms (need phytoplankton), chocolate chip starfish, flame scallops (need phytoplankton), peppermint shrimp, and a brittle star. Hope this helps


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