Is Dosing The Key To Success?

[WhatTheReef]

I have been pretty inconsistant with dosing every now and then whenever I test and notice something is low then add some elements and call it a day...

That being said, I am noticing every tank that is featured on tank of the month thread stresses the importance of stability and that dosing handles that whole situation. Looking to go lps dominant but will try my hardest to keep a nice balance for a mixed reef. Do you guys think I should buy a 3 stage doser for alk, mag, and calc and let that keep everything balanced or is it really not that important if im doing 20% consistant water changes every two weeks with tropic marin pro reef salt?

 

[sirreal63]

It will depend on the consumption of the tank. Dosing is one of the easiest ways to keep up with the demand. As the corals grow, water changes probably will not keep up with the demand unless it is a very small tank.

 

[WhatTheReef]

It will depend on the consumption of the tank. Dosing is one of the easiest ways to keep up with the demand. As the corals grow, water changes probably will not keep up with the demand unless it is a very small tank.

I have a 150 gal and right now but I just get mixed opinions because some people say a biweekly water change should be enough and others say no dose and keep everything 100% stable all the time. Right now my friend offered me a 3 stage bubble magus doser with tubes, holder, and 2 gallons of mag, soda ash, and cal for $350 and I think thats a good deal but at the end of the day I dont want to make things more complicated which can sometimes do more harm then good.

 

[Mikefallen13]

It depends on what your planning to keep. In a LPS or SPS dominated tank it is very important to keep all your parameters stable. So if your planning to keep mainly LPS I would probably invest in the doser, but if you decide to do a lot of polyps and softies instead it really isn't needed. I kept a 29 gal softie dominated tank and I only checked parameters and dosed once a week, and everything thrived.

 

[WhatTheReef]

It depends on what your planning to keep. In a LPS or SPS dominated tank it is very important to keep all your parameters stable. So if your planning to keep mainly LPS I would probably invest in the doser, but if you decide to do a lot of polyps and softies instead it really isn't needed. I kept a 29 gal softie dominated tank and I only checked parameters and dosed once a week, and everything thrived.

I have a 28 gal nano so I know what you mean but its a whole different ball game with my 150. I can pour so much buffer in there at once and it barely does anything but somehow drops like I have a fully stocked tank over night when Im not.

 

[Painted skin]

Yes, while WC does replenish elements, because most salt mix comes with additives and that is preset to their brand. It is hard to calibrate or fine tune element levels from just by water changes, this is where a dosing comes in handy to increase levels in certain areas. Like someone said it depends on the corals kept and how much corals in a particular tank size and consumption. And a 3 stage doser just makes it easier and more convenient than dosing manually.

 

[Drae]

Do a kalk drip and water changes until that's not enough. Kalk alone has worked for me on lps tanks before. Dosing will become necessary though as corals get big and frags turn to colonies.

 

[WhatTheReef]

Yes, while WC does replenish elements, because most salt mix comes with additives and that is preset to their brand. It is hard to calibrate or fine tune element levels from just by water changes, this is where a dosing comes in handy to increase levels in certain areas. Like someone said it depends on the corals kept and how much corals in a particular tank size and consumption. And a 3 stage doser just makes it easier and more convenient than dosing manually.

Do a kalk drip and water changes until that's not enough. Kalk alone has worked for me on lps tanks before. Dosing will become necessary though as corals get big and frags turn to colonies.

Ok being that I am running a 150 with about 50% of rock be covered with coral and do plan to cover it almost all completely then I should just invest it now instead of waiting and having the hassle and investing it then later...

Now with that question being answered...

I want to switch from tropic marin pro reef to instant ocean since its half the price and have seen some show tanks on here with great results using instant ocean. If im now dosing keeping the levels up will instant ocean work just fine? or will i not be able to achieve as nice of a tank with instant ocean as I would using pro reef?

 

[Drae]

IO works fine for me. I dose Randy's recipe though. I've had a bad experience with a couple "reef salts" in the recent past with my alkalinity and went back to what I started with, good ol Instant ocean.

 

[yvr]

+1 on doing regular water changes. If you keep up with water changes with a good quality salt like Tropic Marin Pro Reef which you are using then generally your calcium and trace elements should be replenished as long as you don't keep too many corals that require and utilize higher concentrations of trace elements.

Once you stock your tank with more corals you will want to keep on top of your water chemistry and test it regularly to see if you have to dose to replenish Calcium and trace elements. Don't forget to test for everything that you dose in your tank.

 

[Lofty]

Sorry to hijack, but I am wondering if I should be dosing kalk all the time, or just when I see my calcium levels below "ideal" and for that matter, is 400 ppm "ideal" I'm at 360 right now and mixing some Mrs Wages ATM. I don't have a heavy SPS load, but the suckers are growing like weeds... my Monti Cap is blowing up too. I was just worried about the open brain I've had for a couple weeks and it seems washed out. I think this may help What the Reef too.

 

[wrott]

Sorry, but it seems like people just don't get it. You need to have stable parameters for acros and probably for LPS. Dosing just doesn't cut it, you can't just dump alk/Ca into a tank at one time every day or 2 and expect it to flourish. To keep acros, you need to dose continuously w/ either a 2 part on peristaltic pumps or a Ca reactor.
You cannot expect corals to live by dumping alk/Ca when you feel like it needs it.
WCs don't matter one bit, unless you have high NO3 (>50ppm) or an inefficient skimmer. WCs can actually create a continuous imbalance of alk/Ca, ultimately causing death to corals that are used to a stable environment of alk/Ca--traces elements are of no consequence--you can have a healthy acro tank w/ no WCs and just dose alk/Ca incrementally to maintain stable parameters. Granted, you need to feed acros for them to live more than 3-4 months. They slowly die in most of our tanks.
Otherwise, don't buy acros, montis and LPS will survive w/ fluctuations and dirty water.

 

[JMLewis]

Sorry, but it seems like people just don't get it. You need to have stable parameters for acros and probably for LPS. Dosing just doesn't cut it, you can't just dump alk/Ca into a tank at one time every day or 2 and expect it to flourish. To keep acros, you need to dose continuously w/ either a 2 part on peristaltic pumps or a Ca reactor.
You cannot expect corals to live by dumping alk/Ca when you feel like it needs it.
WCs don't matter one bit, unless you have high NO3 (>50ppm) or an inefficient skimmer. WCs can actually create a continuous imbalance of alk/Ca, ultimately causing death to corals that are used to a stable environment of alk/Ca--traces elements are of no consequence--you can have a healthy acro tank w/ no WCs and just dose alk/Ca incrementally to maintain stable parameters. Granted, you need to feed acros for them to live more than 3-4 months. They slowly die in most of our tanks.
Otherwise, don't buy acros, montis and LPS will survive w/ fluctuations and dirty water.

Perfectly said!

Pick up a couple 1.1ml dosing pumps from BRS and you will not regret it. Do Alk and cal tests frequently over 2 weeks from your last wc so you can see how fast your corals are sucking em up. BRS has a calculator for how much to dose. It's more of a guideline but it'll get you started. Study up on dosing methods and you'll get those parameters stable in no time.

In my last tank even weekly water changes couldn't keep up with just the demand from my coraline algae so no I don't believe water changes alone will do it plus like mentioned above that will cause more instability.

As it is now when I do wc I match my new waters Alk, ca, and mag before I even put it in the tank to lessen the swings. Also mag can be done by hand and has much less of an affect than Alk and ca. I usually test my mag once a week and adjust acirdingly. I just don't let it get under 1290 cause every time I do it takes a ton of reagent to get it over the "hump" into the 1300s.

Just mho

 

[Lofty]

Sorry, but it seems like people just don't get it. You need to have stable parameters for acros and probably for LPS. Dosing just doesn't cut it, you can't just dump alk/Ca into a tank at one time every day or 2 and expect it to flourish. To keep acros, you need to dose continuously w/ either a 2 part on peristaltic pumps or a Ca reactor.
You cannot expect corals to live by dumping alk/Ca when you feel like it needs it.
WCs don't matter one bit, unless you have high NO3 (>50ppm) or an inefficient skimmer. WCs can actually create a continuous imbalance of alk/Ca, ultimately causing death to corals that are used to a stable environment of alk/Ca--traces elements are of no consequence--you can have a healthy acro tank w/ no WCs and just dose alk/Ca incrementally to maintain stable parameters. Granted, you need to feed acros for them to live more than 3-4 months. They slowly die in most of our tanks.
Otherwise, don't buy acros, montis and LPS will survive w/ fluctuations and dirty water.

Some People, was YOU at one point.... I don't understand why we have to be condesending...Anyways, as long as I had been in this hobby (See Member since date), I have not wanted to deal with acro/sps until this last year. There is obviously a learning curve with every application in this hobby. So far all of the acros/sps in my tanks has been growing very well and every specimin is at least six months old and have at least tripled in size, with good color and polyp extension. The LPS is more of a recent addition, less my frogspawn which is thriving as well. I do bi weekly 20% water changes with reef crystals, which I feel is a good product. I feed with Phyto, Roti and Oyster feast and maintain in or around 400ppm calcium. I noted the decline in calcium and am attributing it to the growth of the acros and am looking for advice rather than a brow beating... Sorry These forums are for helping people, not telling people how much smarter you are than them!!

Thanks...any if anyone wants to offer helpful advice that is not laced with sarcasim or spite, then I welcome it.

 

[Justdrew]

I have been pretty inconsistant with dosing every now and then whenever I test and notice something is low then add some elements and call it a day...

That being said, I am noticing every tank that is featured on tank of the month thread stresses the importance of stability and that dosing handles that whole situation. Looking to go lps dominant but will try my hardest to keep a nice balance for a mixed reef. Do you guys think I should buy a 3 stage doser for alk, mag, and calc and let that keep everything balanced or is it really not that important if im doing 20% consistant water changes every two weeks with tropic marin pro reef salt?

You'll never keep your alk up with only water changes using TM Pro Reef. TM Pro has one of the lowest alk readings out of the bucket , and it is designed that way. It is fomulated to mix up to around 6.5 dkh. This is from the TM rep Lou Ekus.

 

[d2mini]

Stability is the key. Stability in the optimal range.
If this means you need to dose in order to keep your parameters in the recommended range, consistently... then the answer to your question is "yes".

 

[kryppy]

I find that massive weekly water changes with NSW along with a calcium reactor are the key to sucess with a highly mixed reef.

 

[KCombs]

I almost hate to keep repeating myself, but after years of reefing and often struggling ; purchasing a controller has made a world of difference for me...

Some say every tank is different, but in reality its also people that are different: some of us have different schedules, disciplines and ability...for me a controller made a world of difference....

Anymore all I monitor is Ph (daily via a probe)
Phosphate, Ca & Alk weekly....
and Nitrate & Salinity every 60 days

...with everything else from Ca & Alk dosing, water level, lighting and temp on auto pilot, my corals are growing and growing.....

...given the investment in everything else, the 200-400 bucks on a controller is a no brainer

 

[d2mini]

I almost hate to keep repeating myself, but after years of reefing and often struggling ; purchasing a controller has made a world of difference for me...

Some say every tank is different, but in reality its also people that are different: some of us have different schedules, disciplines and ability...for me a controller made a world of difference....

Anymore all I monitor is Ph (daily via a probe)
Phosphate, Ca & Alk weekly....
and Nitrate & Salinity every 60 days

...with everything else from Ca & Alk dosing, water level, lighting and temp on auto pilot, my corals are growing and growing.....

...given the investment in everything else, the 200-400 bucks on a controller is a no brainer

I totally agree... A controller really helps with the stability and consistency I mentioned above. It's not completely hands off, but makes life easier. What are you controlling for dosing? Dosing pumps?

For me, my Profilux controller is controlling my ATO using an optical level sensor in the sump. In the ATO I'm adding kalkwasser powder and for now, that's more than enough for my tank. In the past I had a ReefKeeper Lite that was controlling BRS dosing pumps with tubes running to jugs of 2-part. Periodically I would need to dose Magnesium by hand. With this setup though, I always had trouble finding a balance and was making constant adjustments to the timers I had setup on the RKL. I'm finding the kalk in the ATO to be much more stable. The only thing i'm experimenting with is how often to add more kalk. Every time I refill the 45g ATO container? Every other time? Right now I'm only adding .5 heaping tsp per gallon.

 

[Heliman]

I reckon that one of the biggest generators of problems in our Tanks is the common problem of "numbers chasing" with additives....

We test the water and get a "low " reading, so we chuck in some additive, whether this is Calcium, Kalk, Mag or whatever magic potion we have been seduced into using based on slick advertising !. Then we wait a while and test again and again chuck in some more, or some less additive, based on this "new" number.

This is the normal practice with bulk addition of additives. What we tend not to establish is the TREND that is happening and dose accordingly. Trends can only be established over time. Without dosing to correct trends we run the risk of continual swings in parameters, leading to the dreaded instability, and often to wildly unbalanced water parameters, even to tanks crashing.

The benefit of auto dosing via peristaltic pumps is the ability to test and monitor a trend and then adjust any dose rates slowly, so that the trend is gradually arrested. (I assume here that no specific underlying problems are present to cause massive trend swings...these should be adressed as a seperate issue anyway, as part of husbandry)

Multiple dosing per day, to correct trends gives us every chance to achieve stability with only gentle and appropriate changes to parameters, and this surely must be one of the biggest factors in successfully keeping sps (and many other specimens).

Once I established the trends in my Tank, I dose 6 times a day with 1/6th of the required daily dose. If over a week, any adverse trend is evident (things change all the time based on bio-load and/or growth rates and new additions) then I can slowly adjust the 4 hour dose rate without causing a major short term swing.

Works for me to keep stability...which is my prime target.