Is it normal?

[fullmonti]

Is it normal for some nps to be open almost all the time & some even of the same type to be open very little? I can give more detail if needed, but thought this might be one of those general rule kinda things.

 

[slapshot]

Three things influence them IMO. 1. flow, 2. food and 3. light. In that order. In general, they open up for food. Most have to be trained to open during the daylight and the flow has to be just right or the whole thing fails. Oh the joy of Azoox.

 

[fullmonti]

That could be a problem, the flow is pretty the same every where in my tank. They all stayed open most the time for several days, now my purple carnation is open all the time & the orange hasn't opened in over a week. I have moved him to different places no change. Food is the same in hole tank. Yellow finger gorgonian open all day & night while purple gorgonian (right next to it) only opens at odd times doesn't seem to have much to do with food. There is some Azoox psychology I'm not understanding here. Could this be normal, or what should I try next?

 

[fullmonti]

Thoughts, suggestions, more general words of wisdom?

I guess what I'm asking is, assuming there is such a thing as ideal conditions. Do all/most nps stay open about the same amount, or does that very a great deal between individuals? And are there some general guidelines that could be given?

Thanks Jim

 

[Aquabacs]

Jim, Don was right on. Few things to add that I have found with food: 1. you will find that Argent Brand Cyclop-eeze will be your friend (feed it 20-30 minutes prior to feeeding other foods) 2. when there is reduced amount of food in the water column gorgonians are the first to be closed, gorgorians are a good measurent tool (when I do water changes I add food at the same time. It may sound like you are defeating the purpose of a water change but it helps with keeping gorgonians open). Also that if gorgonians are skinning over, expect them to be closed for a few days. For flow dont be afraid to crank it up with your dendronephthya and gorgonians. For light: keep it dim.


Mike

 

[uhuru]

How long have you had the Dendronephthya? How do they look in the middle of the night after complete darkness for a few hours? They usually open up real good at first. The water quality needs to be really good for them to stay open. I don't know how to describe it other than say it needs to feel fresh to them. This is more important than food IME. Not really about N & P. Scleros are the same. When they stay closed they are catabolic and losing mass.

 

[glparr]

When they stay closed they are catabolic and losing mass.

An interesting statement. Are you referring to being closed for extended periods? Or is it your understanding that they are catabolic whenever they're closed, suggesting that truly healthy/thriving dendros/scleros are open almost all of the time. My scleros will close up, but open whenever food is in the water. I don't always have food in the water. Am I forcing them to needlessly burn energy opening and closing by not having a constant supply of food? When I do feed them it's target feeding several times over several hours. But they do have 4-5-hr stretches where no food is in the water.

Just trying to understand their "normal" behavior.

Thanks,
Gary

 

[uhuru]

Yeah I mean closed for extended periods, sorry if I wasn't more clear about that. Opening and closing throughout the day is totally normal IME. Staying closed for a long time - well in our tanks I actually put TOO MUCH FOOD on top of the list before not enough food. Next I think about toxins from other corals or bacteria, chemical warfare, etc. Then I would look at what might have caused shock like a temp swing or pH swing. In my tank, when this happens, I stop dosing liquid foods, continue feeding FM foods, run fresh carbon, turn up the ozone. Water is changed automatically every day so I don't worry about that but if not I would do a large water change as well. Heck when I was doing manual water changes I would pour the new water directly on top of the dendro, and it loved it. This has always worked for me, but every tank is different. Only thing is when the coral starts opening up again its going to be smaller than before, because it had to catabolize itself to stay alive while not feeding. Now if the coral is stretched out and flaccid, with the tissue looking more opaque, its too far gone to save, but ones that can still shrink themselves can be saved. Again, purely based on my limited experience!

fullmonti what are you feeding and how much? How often are you changing the water? Do you run carbon? Ozone?

 

[fullmonti]

I have had mine for 3-4 weeks now. Been feeding 25ml fauna marin mix via LiterMeter daily, plus and or a cube of frozen cyclopeeze, roti, H2O life coral food. Also 2-3-or more times a day Brightwell reef snow & zooplankton (small size), a shot or two of oyster feast.
My nps tank is part of my sps system, 30-40 gph come into nps tank from system, overflow goes back into skimmer, then back into system. Far as I know water quality is good, sps all doing good. PH runs from 8.1 at lowest to 8.4 highest, usually some where in the middle. I do little more than 10% water change every week. I have a zeo reactor & carbon (change both every 4-6 weeks) no Ozone.
I have tried to feed an extra surge of all kinds of food, but the two that haven't been opening still don't.

The orange carnation has not opened in may be two weeks. The purple gorgonian opens some but not often. The other two open almost all the time. My new tank thread has more pix & info.

 

[uhuru]

Can you take a close up pic of the orange one? I wouldn't be too worried about the purple gorg yet. They can close up for 1-2 weeks at a time. I didn't realize your tank was connected to an sps system. 25 ml of FM mix doesn't sound like much. Maybe you aren't feeding enough after all, but I wouldn't necessarily start feeding more just yet.

 

[fullmonti]

I have noticed after several hours of the FM mix with out any thing extra the two happy ones will start to close. But even after a really big shot of extra food the orange one doesn't open. Hope the new pic helps.

 

[glparr]

It the orange one showing any inclination to open? If so, can you target feed when any polyp shows an opening, i.e., let it know that food is available? Or maybe target feed the "lump" just a little bit to see if it will react? I assume that it's a scleronephthya? Is it closed in the middle of the night? If it shows any tendency to open in the middle of the night, maybe it'll have to be fed then to get some energy in it? Maybe move that powerhead in the upper left to another location to change the overall flow dynamic in the aquarium? Just some thoughts.
Gary

 

[uhuru]

Yeah thats a scleronephthya I thought you were talking about dendronephthya when you said carnation coral. Still salvageable! But very difficult. I have a small colony that is just starting to come back after WEEKS of being closed like that. They started opening up again after I stopped dosing so much phyto, changed the carbon and turned up the ozone. Otherwise all feeding has remained the same.

Your Dendronephthya is looking good but you can't compare the two. I find Scleros more sensitive! They are very quick to shut down and give up.

 

[fullmonti]

I have dumped a bunch of different kinds of food at different times trying to get it to react, nothing didn't even try to open any time day or night. I just in the last day or two lowered that powerhead towards it, flow strong enough to blow corse gravel around some, still nothing. The purple gorgonian does open partly when i feed extra. Other two very happy. Looks like some need more food to be happy than others?

 

[uhuru]

IMO, its not the lack of food. Its something in the water that they don't like. Even after you remove the insult, it takes days for them to start opening just a little.

How is your DIY food reactor working out? How often do you clean it out?

 

[fullmonti]

I will change carbon, no ozone to turn up, & I only feed phyto in the FM mix 10ml in a 500ml mix.

My food reactor has been working great. Temp stays in the 40s. It pumps 1 gal a day (leaving just enough water in it to cover ice probe & pump.. Each night just before bed I refill the 1 gal with tank water I had put in frig the night before & fresh frozen cubes of the mix. I have been cleaning it once a week, just a little gunge mostly in & around the pump. It has never had any smell of spoilage at all. Been very happy with it so far.

 

[fullmonti]

I don't know if this info will help. I got a red chili coral couple weeks ago, it seems to have settled in to a routine of opening ever other night. I thought they usually opened every night, but every other has been pretty consistent.

 

[uhuru]

I don't know if patterns really mean much this early on. I do think that trying to change up the diet or add more food right now could upset the dendronephthya you have that is looking pretty good right now. Personally I would just concentrate on the water chemistry and wait it out. I would re-evaluate the feeding strategy only if the dendronephthya starts to look unhappy.

 

[fullmonti]

Well good news, the little orange dude has started opening at least half way any way. Hoping this will continue. Only thing I can think is pointing the power head more toward him a few days back just took awhile to show any effect. Or he just had some issue to work through?

Thanks
Jim