Is Quickrete Quick Setting reef safe?

Quik-Crete should be safe if it doesn't have any dye in it. The dyes might be safe, too, but I'm not sure about that. The usual concrete caveats apply: the rock will need a lot of water flushes to leach the base out of the concrete.
 
Right. I know. I was going to do the toilet bowel method of curing. Seems the best. =) It's just plain old gray. Thank you so much Bertoni for your reply. ;)
 
Keep in mind that these mixes contain a substantial amount of alumina (that's what makes it quick-setting). Some of us don't want that anywhere near our tanks, and refuse to use any artificial rock for this reason.

That, however, is an individual choice. The amount of aluminum leaching from products like quick-setting cement, artificial live rock and ceramic live rock substitutes seems to depend a good deal on the conditions in the particular tank, so it might be OK to use in a frag tank where the amount of livestock at risk is relatively small.

But as others mentioned, any artifact created out of raw cement needs to be "aged" before putting it in a tank.
 
I know about the PH leaking. I followed the entire thread of DIY live rock. I just don't want to go through the entire 5 page split just to find my answer. =*( I've made live rock before, but a member by the name Mr. Wilson uses it or some other type of quick setting cement in his tanks and he does it professionally for aquariums. I just want to use the same type of cement. I've tried sending him a message already. =*(

Nutting.
 
Fwiw after having used hydraulic cement, next time I would drill the rock and use fiberglass rods (driveway markers) instead. The cement works but it's not super strong and can let go when rearranging rock (initially or later) and screw up your entire scape, whereas the rods allow you to move or rearrange rocks easily and without a failure.
 
And I just read this:

12.1 Ecotoxicity
May cause long-term adverse effects to the aquatic environment. Do not allow undiluted product or large quantities of it to reach ground water, water course or sewage system. Must not reach bodies of water or drainage ditch undiluted or un-neutralized

I wonder if they mean the unmixed version or the mixed set version? What do you guys think?
 
The warning's about the un-mixed virgin powder. All concrete/Portland cement mixtures have a good deal of calcium oxide/hydroxide in them, which could potentially radically alter the pH and/or alkalinity of a small freshwater body of water.
 
Through my research and experience Portland cement is the way to go. Mix in aragonite and crushed coral and you'll have a very strong rock.
 
Marinegirl -

Here's the definition of "Portland Cement" from Wikipedia:

"ASTM C150 defines Portland cement as "hydraulic cement (cement that not only hardens by reacting with water but also forms a water-resistant product) produced by pulverizing clinkers which consist essentially of hydraulic calcium silicates, usually containing one or more of the forms of calcium sulphate as an inter ground addition."
Click to expand...

I'd note that this is the base definition of Portland cement - many other additives are possible, one of which is phosphorus.

So-called "non-hydraulic" cement contains much less of the alumina-silicate component, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to find this in consumer packaging and amounts.

Regardless of the perhaps less-than-desirable components of most commercial cements, one can still successfully make artificial live rock from the materials. The issues to be tackled are porosity (or lack thereof), and curing of the finished product. Some degree of porosity can be achieved by mixing coarse salt into the mix, which then dissolves in the curing tub. The curing (for reef tank use, not "curing" as in setting of the cement mix) consists of long periods of soaking in fresh and/or salt water to both reduce the reactive calcium oxide that would elevate pH, and also to deplete the surface of undesirable compounds like aluminum, silica and (potentially) phosphorus.

In my opinion, actual live rock is still preferable to all other substrates, but dry reef rock is a more desirable substrate than artificial live rock from the standpoint of less potential for contaminating materials, particularly dry reef rock that's natural rock from the ocean. Presuming that it's been harvested from relatively non-polluted areas, the sea has already "cured" it for you, with the possible exception of phosphorus from organic sources that can be fairly easily removed by acid washing or curing in saltwater with the addition of lanthanum chloride to precipitate lanthanum phosphate.

Having said that, artificial rock made from cement or ceramic materials does offer more creativity when it comes to shapes and sizes.
 
dkeller and MarineGirl, you're both killing me lol.I honestly have not had time to tinker around with making artificial live rock but from Garf, to here on RC, had read many articles in the past, but as memory goes, if you don't use it, you lose it. As David pointed out, fiberglass rods work well. dkeller one of my questions for you is that isn't fly ash used to make concrete stronger? The chemical composition of course may question its use for marine aquariums but we would already be adding some of these elements in the manufacturing process of the "live rock". As you also mentioned, the shapes that can be achieved with making your own live rock can be very desirable but I think that people forget that you can take a masonry hammer and shape natural live rock to fit more adequately to our own liking. For the people doing this, cement can then be used to fill any voids along with utilizing the fiberglass rods that David mentioned, allowing for some creative aquascapes.
 
Yes, some amount of fly ash is usually in Portland, or hydraulic cement. It's the principal source of alumina-silicate required to make hydraulic cement set under water.

Again, while I personally don't want it anywhere near my tanks, I don't want to leave everyone with the impression that I think it can't be used - there are too many that have manufactured their own live rock out of cement and related materials and have been successful with it. That's essentially what Real Reef Rock is, and while I don't like the concept, company or the name of the product, there's certainly been lots of folks on RC that have put it in their tanks, and to all appearances, not had any problems with it.

I think the key thing here is that just because a material has aluminum, silica, iron, phosphorus and other elements/minerals in it doesn't mean an overwhelming amount of it (sufficient to be immediately toxic) will dissolve in saltwater, particularly once the finished solid object is soaked for a few weeks in saltwater so that most of what can readily dissolve on the surface does so in water that is thrown out.

And I'd guess that what remains and slowly leaches out over time would cause absolutely no issues for fish, and perhaps the tougher invertebrates and corals. Where I'd be more cautious would be categorically stating that a tank based on artificial live rock would be perfectly OK for more sensitive corals, such as Acropora, and sensitive invertebrates, such as photosynthetic clams.
 
I've used quickset hydraulic cement on my current build with no ill effects. Water chemistry has been spot on and my corals are thriving and fish are fat and healthy.

I based my use of this product on many months of research here on RC and the web, including MSDS on different products. Once fully cured outside of water, it has shown no leaching into the water column.

As posted above, there is a thread on RC by "Mr. Willson" called "Reef ceramics". He goes into details about different products and his years of experience using them. Highly informative and led me to using quick setting hydraulic cement.

Those that haven't used these products are most likely the ones that guard against its use. Proof is in the pudding and there is a large number of success stories of its use, providing its proper application.
 
MarineGirl411 said:
Good idea!
Click to expand...
I'm currently redoing my scape with driveway markers actually...

3fb46197aa38ad5289d7d42e4fb7e73b.jpg
 
Flippers4pups said:
Once fully cured outside of water, it has shown no leaching into the water column.
Click to expand...

Please keep in mind that the potential contaminants that I was discussing above cannot be tested for by hobbyists, except for phosphorus. One can, of course, monitor alkalinity (and calcium) to reasonably determine when the cement construction is "cured".


Flippers4pups said:
Those that haven't used these products are most likely the ones that guard against its use. Proof is in the pudding and there is a large number of success stories of its use, providing its proper application.
Click to expand...

Yes, just as with the discussions of high aluminum concentrations in tank water discovered by Triton tests and potentially linked to the use of sintered ceramic artificial "live rock", my preference to simply keep it out of my tanks is based on the composition of typical hydraulic and non-hydraulic cement products and the potential dissolution of those contaminants. But as noted, artificial constructions that use cement products as their base my well be perfectly fine for certain applications, regardless of the potential undesirable components that the products contain.

But because cement products are known to contain compounds in quantity that would be undesirable in a reef tank, bringing this up as a potential pitfall to would-be users is, in my view, the right thing to do.
 
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