Just wondering if there was a sticky or FAQ about various cookie-cutter or generic stocking combinations of fish based on tank sizes. For example, for a 30 gallon tank, pick one from menu A, one from Menu B. I am trying to get some basic ideas and narrow down the huge amount of information into something easier to research. I find a lot of information about individual fish, but not on what work well together, and how many of each species (i.e. a single fish, or a group, or 1M/3F, etc.) I am going to stock a 90 gallon tank down the road and want as much time up front to find local sources and see them live before deciding.
is there a cookie cutter stocking guideline?
- Thread starter Steverino
- Start date
T-T-Trigger
Premium Member
with aggressive fish there is no real cookie cutter guideline, much will depend on observation and experience - it can be a real challenge (which is why many of us do it).
the real trick is to pick the fish you MUST have and then start building around it piece by piece.
the real trick is to pick the fish you MUST have and then start building around it piece by piece.
Ocicat
Premium Member
Re: is there a cookie cutter stocking guideline?
That is a great idea... I wish that one of the experts would put something like that together. I'm pulling my hair out trying to decide on stocking for my 180. You're exactly right - you can read up on the individual fish all you want, but the whole is not always equal to the sum of the parts. I finally sent an email to WetWebMedia asking them to comment on my particular stocking plan... Hopefully they can give me fairly definitive answers - but that requires individual attention; it would be great if there were a system or at least guidelines to standard stocking combinations that usually (I know nothing is a given!) work, so we could figure it out more or less on our own.
That is a great idea... I wish that one of the experts would put something like that together. I'm pulling my hair out trying to decide on stocking for my 180. You're exactly right - you can read up on the individual fish all you want, but the whole is not always equal to the sum of the parts. I finally sent an email to WetWebMedia asking them to comment on my particular stocking plan... Hopefully they can give me fairly definitive answers - but that requires individual attention; it would be great if there were a system or at least guidelines to standard stocking combinations that usually (I know nothing is a given!) work, so we could figure it out more or less on our own.
Thanks Ed!!!
I am still researching the whole situation, but I have a 90 gallon tank (actually I calculated 86 gallons), it is 36 wide, and about 30" tall (yes, a tall tank!). Front to back, maybe 18"? I am ready and willing to have a sand bed (2" or more?), and a ton of live rock too. I will of course have a protein skimmer, but not sure about the Wet/dry sump, refugium, hang-on-back, bakpak, etc. Still trying to figure that out. I have done hang-on back and freshwater stuff for years, but I just don't know a lot about the sumps, wet drys and refugiums, it is all new to me. Since this will be a show tank out in an open area of my house, but the tank is only 36" wide, I could put something under it in the cabinet, but I don't want a lot of noise and there is not a ton of space to get at it. I can make room behind it if needed for the HOB skimmers/filters. (It is a long shot, but I could even poke a hole in the wall and have a wet/dry tank in my laundry room- long term project.)
So I planned to start off with live sand and live rock, get the tank going slowly, people say I can use damsels for cycling but they say I don't want them for the long term due to aggression, so I am steering away from using live fish for cycling. Can I put a lot of live rock and sand in at the very beginning of this process? Or is that added slowly too? I am also struggling with the water changes, since I currently have no DI or RO water souce, just plain old tap water. I can do water changes like a madman, but I use tap water, dechlorinator and a Python for my current freshwater tank. Not sure what to do about water changes on a saltwater tank like this.
With a 36" wide and 30" tall tank, I am also wondering how to stack up the rock safely to take up a lot of the vertical space. If I can figure out how to do that, it could be a very cool look, almost like the face of a reef. I don't need or have to have a ton of fish, just a handfull of color (but I have to have a clown i.e. Nemo as part of this deal i.e. (negotiating with the family )).
I am still researching the whole situation, but I have a 90 gallon tank (actually I calculated 86 gallons), it is 36 wide, and about 30" tall (yes, a tall tank!). Front to back, maybe 18"? I am ready and willing to have a sand bed (2" or more?), and a ton of live rock too. I will of course have a protein skimmer, but not sure about the Wet/dry sump, refugium, hang-on-back, bakpak, etc. Still trying to figure that out. I have done hang-on back and freshwater stuff for years, but I just don't know a lot about the sumps, wet drys and refugiums, it is all new to me. Since this will be a show tank out in an open area of my house, but the tank is only 36" wide, I could put something under it in the cabinet, but I don't want a lot of noise and there is not a ton of space to get at it. I can make room behind it if needed for the HOB skimmers/filters. (It is a long shot, but I could even poke a hole in the wall and have a wet/dry tank in my laundry room- long term project.)
So I planned to start off with live sand and live rock, get the tank going slowly, people say I can use damsels for cycling but they say I don't want them for the long term due to aggression, so I am steering away from using live fish for cycling. Can I put a lot of live rock and sand in at the very beginning of this process? Or is that added slowly too? I am also struggling with the water changes, since I currently have no DI or RO water souce, just plain old tap water. I can do water changes like a madman, but I use tap water, dechlorinator and a Python for my current freshwater tank. Not sure what to do about water changes on a saltwater tank like this.
With a 36" wide and 30" tall tank, I am also wondering how to stack up the rock safely to take up a lot of the vertical space. If I can figure out how to do that, it could be a very cool look, almost like the face of a reef. I don't need or have to have a ton of fish, just a handfull of color (but I have to have a clown i.e. Nemo as part of this deal i.e. (negotiating with the family )).
EdKruzel
Premium Member
This is a very simple set-up and one you'll enjoy for many years; first I recommend the use of a sump as that will hide all that ugly but necessary equipment such as the heater and skimmer.
For the sump you can purchase a cheap 20gal aquarium or a similar sized rubbermaid commercial container, not the rubbermaid thin walled stuff you see at Wal-Mart.
For circulation you have many options; number 1 and the best is having the tank drilled for a closed loop, however the easiest and cheapest would be to have two large powerheads on timers for on-off cross circulation.
I recommend building a sturdy tower out of PVC (3/4'') to fasten the LR against; this will enable you to build large overhangs for a more natural appearance with less rock.
Utilize large pieces of LR for ease of decor.
As the rock begins to cycle ammonia drops to zero and the nitrite is elevated, you can add a few bags of sand of which I recommend one bag of live sand.
As the nitrite drops (to zero) and the nitrate rises, you'll conduct your first water change (about 25%) and then add some maintenance critters like snails and some small hermits.
As the nitrate remains at a sensible level (5-10ppm) you can begin turning the lights on the system. Start with an hour a day for a week at a time doubling it (weekly) until you have it at the photo-period of your choice.
Your first fish is ready to come home at this time as well.
I recommend fish that will not exceed more than 4''s when mature.
Being clowns are a must we will use this as our base model.
Grammas
Cardinals
Long Nose Hawk
Blennies
Gobies
Dwarf Angel
All of the above are compatible with Ocellaris or Percula Clownfishes and many can be kept in pairs.
It is much more exciting watching a variety or large group of fish as opposed to two or three larger fish.
Give the tank a good 6mths of trouble free running and maturity before adding the anemone.
I recommend a BTA and remember that it should be at least 3x's the size of your clowns to properly be a host.
Using tap water is okay provided you know what is in it and treat it properly. In many cases prime works well, however some areas of the country have terribly polluted tap water so using RO/DI or purchasing treated water is a must.
As the project develops, keep me informed and I'll gladly help with further advice.
Ed
For the sump you can purchase a cheap 20gal aquarium or a similar sized rubbermaid commercial container, not the rubbermaid thin walled stuff you see at Wal-Mart.
For circulation you have many options; number 1 and the best is having the tank drilled for a closed loop, however the easiest and cheapest would be to have two large powerheads on timers for on-off cross circulation.
I recommend building a sturdy tower out of PVC (3/4'') to fasten the LR against; this will enable you to build large overhangs for a more natural appearance with less rock.
Utilize large pieces of LR for ease of decor.
As the rock begins to cycle ammonia drops to zero and the nitrite is elevated, you can add a few bags of sand of which I recommend one bag of live sand.
As the nitrite drops (to zero) and the nitrate rises, you'll conduct your first water change (about 25%) and then add some maintenance critters like snails and some small hermits.
As the nitrate remains at a sensible level (5-10ppm) you can begin turning the lights on the system. Start with an hour a day for a week at a time doubling it (weekly) until you have it at the photo-period of your choice.
Your first fish is ready to come home at this time as well.
I recommend fish that will not exceed more than 4''s when mature.
Being clowns are a must we will use this as our base model.
Grammas
Cardinals
Long Nose Hawk
Blennies
Gobies
Dwarf Angel
All of the above are compatible with Ocellaris or Percula Clownfishes and many can be kept in pairs.
It is much more exciting watching a variety or large group of fish as opposed to two or three larger fish.
Give the tank a good 6mths of trouble free running and maturity before adding the anemone.
I recommend a BTA and remember that it should be at least 3x's the size of your clowns to properly be a host.
Using tap water is okay provided you know what is in it and treat it properly. In many cases prime works well, however some areas of the country have terribly polluted tap water so using RO/DI or purchasing treated water is a must.
As the project develops, keep me informed and I'll gladly help with further advice.
Ed
Thanks Ed, great info....I am looking forward to researching those fish and seeing what is available locally. Lots of reefers and saltwater hobbyists around here. I can easily get my hands on a 20 gallon. I'll have to look more into how to construct it all. If I provide the tank, how much should I expect to pay for the rest of the equipment to make a sump? What is the 'second best" option? One question my wife asks me is do they smell?
I am pretty handy with the PVC pipe so I will start to surf around for ideas how to construct that wall of rock as well. Do I drill some holes and attach rock pieces with fishing line? Is it attached to the back of the tank, maybe hooked on to the back rim of the tank?
I honestly have no idea how I would drill this tank, it is heavy as heck, the glass is thick. But I might give it a try! What have I got to lose!?
I am pretty handy with the PVC pipe so I will start to surf around for ideas how to construct that wall of rock as well. Do I drill some holes and attach rock pieces with fishing line? Is it attached to the back of the tank, maybe hooked on to the back rim of the tank?
I honestly have no idea how I would drill this tank, it is heavy as heck, the glass is thick. But I might give it a try! What have I got to lose!?
EdKruzel
Premium Member
If you've never drilled glass I wouldn't recommend it, but maybe contact a local reefer with experience.
Sumps don't smell, at least any different than the tank itself.
A 20 gal is probably no more than $30 and for good prices on other equipment you can check out www.marinedepot.com for starters.
The sump is merely a container; the water dumps into the sump (use some sort of baffle to handle the bubbles)(sponge works well) and is returned via a return submersible pump.
In the sump you place your skimmer and heater as well as anytype of filtration material (such as the sponge used as a baffle).
You may have to drill some holes in your LR and can use plastic (no metal) wire zip ties to fasten it to the PVC.
Many of the coral putties on the market work well for glueing rock together.
Sumps don't smell, at least any different than the tank itself.
A 20 gal is probably no more than $30 and for good prices on other equipment you can check out www.marinedepot.com for starters.
The sump is merely a container; the water dumps into the sump (use some sort of baffle to handle the bubbles)(sponge works well) and is returned via a return submersible pump.
In the sump you place your skimmer and heater as well as anytype of filtration material (such as the sponge used as a baffle).
You may have to drill some holes in your LR and can use plastic (no metal) wire zip ties to fasten it to the PVC.
Many of the coral putties on the market work well for glueing rock together.
EdKruzel
Premium Member
All of my pictures are mature systems with encrusted corals, so it really doesn't show anything, however I am getting ready to make a structure over a PVC frame coated with Great Stuff foam and sprinkled with sand and crushed coral.
I plan to photograph each step and post it.
Ed
I plan to photograph each step and post it.
Ed
Can anyone give me more specific info on the Dwarf Angels that I might be able to include? Are there some species names you can list? I have been looking into all of the others and have seen most available locally, but not sure about the dwarf angels. The tank is starting cycling and fish are on the radar screen!
Grammas
Cardinals
Long Nose Hawk
Blennies
Gobies
Dwarf Angel
Grammas
Cardinals
Long Nose Hawk
Blennies
Gobies
Dwarf Angel
trndkiller05
New member
coral beauty is an awesome lookin dwarf angel
doggiestlist
New member
accually there is only one compatabilty chart i have found over the 5 yrs in this hobby and its only on liveaquaria.com although they dont always have the most up to date and accurate tank requirements for alot of their fish . but it is the only chart available to get a good idea of what will live together .I will say that i have used this chart since th beginning of my sw hobby and so far it hasnt steered me wrong
doggiestlist
New member
as far as foods go it very simple to explain
you have 4 types of fish basicly
carnivore: (meat eater) these fish need a high variety of protein based foods such as shrimp ,krill,mysis shrimp.plankton,squid,scallops.fish such as silverslides,any type of marine species fish will do try to avoid large amounts of tuna and salmon as they have a very high fat content and this could shorten the life span of your fish.also avoid all fw species fish or foods as they do not contain the same nutrients due to different diet as sw species do and the result could end up as malnurishment and eventually didease and death. these fish may also tend to nibble on plant based foods depending on each species
predator: (larger species sharks ,rays, eels, lions ,groupers ,ect
these all fall under the same dietary needs as the carnivore but amounts and sizes of food will vary on the size and species of each
omnivore:these fish such as clowns ,damsels ,dotties,ect
require an equal amount 50%of meaty foods for protien and 50% plant and algae based foods to reach proper nutritional needs
herbivore:tangs foxfaces ect these fish require a diet of multipul feedings of 75% plant and algae based foods and 25% proteins in the daily diet..due to having a high amount plant fiber they have very high motabolizms and burn this energy very quickly thus being the reason that tangs do require multipul daily feedings
angels :are concidered in the group of onmivores but their diet consist of 1 major part(sponge) angels that lack the required amount of sponge in their daily dietary intake tend to have a much shorter life span in captivity due to disease and parasites such as HLLE and ICH..when housing angels or concidering any type of angel be prepared to buy frozen prepared foods formulated for angels these foods are the only ones made with added sponge
i hope this does shed some light on the subject for anyone needing this info
as for the use of brine shrimp i highly advize against it it has little to no nutritional value to sw fish ,yes its cheep and yes you get what you pay for unless you guttload it with the added cost of vit and suppliments to boost is nutrients by the time all is seaid and done you could have purchased marine species foods
you have 4 types of fish basicly
carnivore: (meat eater) these fish need a high variety of protein based foods such as shrimp ,krill,mysis shrimp.plankton,squid,scallops.fish such as silverslides,any type of marine species fish will do try to avoid large amounts of tuna and salmon as they have a very high fat content and this could shorten the life span of your fish.also avoid all fw species fish or foods as they do not contain the same nutrients due to different diet as sw species do and the result could end up as malnurishment and eventually didease and death. these fish may also tend to nibble on plant based foods depending on each species
predator: (larger species sharks ,rays, eels, lions ,groupers ,ect
these all fall under the same dietary needs as the carnivore but amounts and sizes of food will vary on the size and species of each
omnivore:these fish such as clowns ,damsels ,dotties,ect
require an equal amount 50%of meaty foods for protien and 50% plant and algae based foods to reach proper nutritional needs
herbivore:tangs foxfaces ect these fish require a diet of multipul feedings of 75% plant and algae based foods and 25% proteins in the daily diet..due to having a high amount plant fiber they have very high motabolizms and burn this energy very quickly thus being the reason that tangs do require multipul daily feedings
angels :are concidered in the group of onmivores but their diet consist of 1 major part(sponge) angels that lack the required amount of sponge in their daily dietary intake tend to have a much shorter life span in captivity due to disease and parasites such as HLLE and ICH..when housing angels or concidering any type of angel be prepared to buy frozen prepared foods formulated for angels these foods are the only ones made with added sponge
i hope this does shed some light on the subject for anyone needing this info
as for the use of brine shrimp i highly advize against it it has little to no nutritional value to sw fish ,yes its cheep and yes you get what you pay for unless you guttload it with the added cost of vit and suppliments to boost is nutrients by the time all is seaid and done you could have purchased marine species foods
