Is there any such thing as a reliable heater?

ppurcell

New member
I lost another heater over night. Of course when it failed it caused the GFI to pop; which in turn turned off my RK2 controller which turned off my lights and my other heaters and a few other odds and ends (like the Ca reactor, the CL and the protein skimmer)

This is the third heater failure this year. All three were different brands. I'm pretty sure that one was ruined by a bug in the RK2 software, and this one may have come to an early finish for the same reason. But I am now looking for a "reliable" heater.

Any suggestions?

I am also looking for a Medusa, Ranco or similar single stage controller now... I need to get the heaters on seperate circuits with seperate controllers.
 
You can keep your house at 78-82 degrees year round and just walk around in flip flops and Hawaiian shirts. Or you could upgrade your lights and start looking for a reliable chiller.

Other than that... not sure. I've had luck with Visitherm stealths but it could all be chance. Do you know if your power is clean or if it fluctuates a bit? Are you plugged into a decent UPS or anything that might condition it?
 
prugs - I haven't used any jagers in the past 10 years or longer but I have seen some threads where folks have been recommending them recently.

ccaragol - I've tried regulating tank temperature by keeping the house temp at the desired setting, but that is an unpopular solution with the CFO.

I use a whole house surge arrestor/conditioner. But the device is in parallel so I really don't know how well it works.

I currently do not use any UPS on my tanks, I would need either a fairly large UPS or many of them to handle the power load of the heaters (three 250's). I'm not sure if a UPS would help in this situation anyway unless dirty power is causing the heater to fail in a way that results in a popped GFI.

I don't have an oscilloscope to see how clean the power is, but I have put a multimeter on the line and the voltage doesn't seem to vary a lot. I know that my power has had very few failures over the past 13 years, but power quality is a matter which isn't easy to quantify without the proper equipment.
 
I've got a brand new Ranco dual stage (heating and cooling), pre-wired (three prong on all connections) that I never wound up using. $120, which is what I got it for (that didn't include the shipping of course) from diyreef.com. Let me know if you want it.
 
Seth he's got a controller. It is the heating element he's talking about.

And IME the answer is, "no".
 
I have used Ebo-Jaegars on my freshwater tanks for 8 years. I have had one heater go bad on me in that time frame. I am still running the same ones i bought then and some others I have picked up over the years. I currently have around 20 of them running on my tanks. I will not use any other heaters then them.

I have a rancho temperature controller on my reef and I have ran that for 3 years. No problems as of yet. I really like it and am planning on getting another one for my fish only.
 
After burning out 4 Won heaters I went back to Jagers in the sump and lo and behold working great I won't change anymore. with them in the sump I don't need "unbreakable" titanium heaters anyway
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9984671#post9984671 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ostrow
Seth he's got a controller. It is the heating element he's talking about.

And IME the answer is, "no".

It could be, but thats not what he wrote.

"... am also looking for a Medusa, Ranco or similar single stage controller now..."

Perhaps I misread it, but I thought it was quite clear. If I am not mistaken, he wants a seperate controller specifically for the heaters (becuase of continued instability/dependability) so he can isolate it away from his multi-controller in order to prevent blowing the power to all his other equip being managed by the multi-controller. Perhaps the dualie is more than he needs, but my offer's there to a fellow reefer.

ppurcell, please clarify for us. Thanks!
 
Sounds like Ebo Jaeger's may be the ticket here.

Seth, you're correct. I think today's problem could have been avoided if I had a second controller. So I'm plan to leave one heater on my RK2 and I'm going to put 2 smaller heaters on a different controller on a seperate AC circuit. That way I should be able to isolate any failure so that I will still have at least 50% heating, lighting & circulation.
 
"I like Visitherm stealths as well. "

I liked my 2 visitherm stealths until one of them ended up zapping the **** out of me 2 months ago. I stuck my hand in the tank and got zapped. I wasn't sure what was causing it, so, one by one I unplugged items from the powers strip and stuck my hand back into the water each time until I finally unplugged the heater and then I didn't get zapped (process of elimination :) ). I think I shocked myself 7 or 8 times before I got down to the heater.
 
Sorry Phil, I missed that part of your post.

The Rancos are terrific.

Hans, always unplug the heaters first. Then the powerheads. And find another way to test that doesn't rely on pain/danger of electrocution.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9985703#post9985703 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ostrow
Sorry Phil, I missed that part of your post.

The Rancos are terrific.

Hans, always unplug the heaters first. Then the powerheads. And find another way to test that doesn't rely on pain/danger of electrocution.

Well thats no fun!

Ebo-jager fan here with stealths coming in close second.
 
"Hans, always unplug the heaters first. Then the powerheads. And find another way to test that doesn't rely on pain/danger of electrocution."

:) From now on, the heaters will be the first thing I suspect. Is there an easier way to "test" ? I'd like to know b/c my way of testing the water wasn't a pleasant one :)
 
I let my GFI do my testing for me... I really don't like the tingle of electricity.

I'm not sure if there are failures it won't trip for, but so far it's caught all of mine.
 
My GFI did not trip on a bum Oceanrunner pump I recently bought from an RC-er. I plugged it in, went to move somethign in my sump and got tingling up my arm. Unplugged the OR pump, tingling gone.

No idea why GFI did not trip.

Hopefully, Jose will read this. I will summon him....
 
I keep 3 heaters in my system due to the size. 2 Won's and 1 Jager.
Over the years, the Jager is the only one that has never failed since day one. I've replaced various other titaniums a few times.
 
OK guys, some safety tips:

a) Design it to fail: In other words think of Murphy, if it can fail it will and will do it at worst time, probably 5 minutes after you had closed the garage door in the way to the airport for a two day business trip.
What does this means... Heaters can fail several ways and here are the key ones:
1. Fail to turn OFF. A temperature controller in series to the heater thermostat can provide a fail safe, set the heater thermostat say to maintain 80*F and the controller to shut off heaters at 78*F, If the controller fails to shut it off the thermostat will try to keep no more than 80*F
Using two heaters might also help if one gets stuck on might not have enough power to heat the whole tank very fast. If you have a chiller the chiller might be able to counteract the effect of a smaller heater stuck on but not a single large one.

2. Fail to turn ON: Here the use of two heaters is also advisable. In this case if the controller fails to turn ON there is no much to do unless you also use a second controller, if the controller turns ON but the heater thermostat do not, having two smaller heater might one turn on even if the other does not.
By the way I have noticed that most of the time fail to turn on is not a really big problem as pumps and lighting may provide enough heating to keep things going for long while.

3. It will short circuit hot to neutral: this might be a big deal as the GFCI will not trip but the wires will overheat and you are at the mercy of your breaker, insure your supply wire is not overloaded and the breaker is sized right for the wire gauge.

4. It will short circuit hot to tank water: Unfortunately this is one of the most common and at the same time the most dangerous.
If your tank is not grounded (not ground probe) the short circuit will be there but nothing will show until you put your hand in the water, if you have a GFCI you are lucky and it will trip saving you from a good shock, if you do not have a GFCI and unlucky enough to become a good conductor to ground... well see you in haven or a similar place.
If your tank is grounded and you have a GFCI then the GFCI will trip as soon as the short circuit is established.
If your tank is grounded and you do not have a GFCI then you can say "by by critters" as the breaker does not act fast enough to prevent the corals and fish from dying and some times not even fast enough to prevent a fire specially is the short circuit is not absolute.
So for this case ALWAYS use a GFCI and insure it is in working condition, the use of a ground probe after the GFCI is optional.

5. Make it accessible: If it takes three hours and several plumbers to take the heater out for regular cleaning and wiring inspection they will not be maintained. Sure you might have found out by now that calcium and alkalinity are not the only things that need maintenance in your system. Heaters tend to get encrusted with carbonate precipitation and salt water is harsh on rubber seals and wire insulation making it hard and brittle making the insulation develop crack when flexed. The moment you notice the wires or rubber seals have lost flexibility replace the heaters.

Be Safe and Enjoy!

PS, Hans. I know you can be a multitasker but have you hear about multitesters? :lol:
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9985809#post9985809 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ostrow
My GFI did not trip on a bum Oceanrunner pump I recently bought from an RC-er. I plugged it in, went to move somethign in my sump and got tingling up my arm. Unplugged the OR pump, tingling gone.

No idea why GFI did not trip.

Hopefully, Jose will read this. I will summon him....

GFCI have the nasty habit of requiring at least 5 milliamps of current to trip or not tripping properly at all, insure you test it at least once a month.
Also insure that the equipment is connected to the GFCI, sometimes with the great tangle of wires and cables reminiscent of an spaghetti plate I loose track of what is connected to what :D
 
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