Is this anything to worry about?

[Baltimore Bryan]

I just noticed this on my young female occ. clown. There are round, light patches on her sking on one side behind the head stripe at the top. It looks like a dead patch of skin, but I want to make sure there is nothing to worry about. What do you think? (Sorry for the blurry pictures)

Thanks,
Bryan

 

[Mook Man]

That looks like Brooklynella. I am in the last couple of weeks of battling the disease on one of my clowns. I would suggest QTing immediately and a combination of hyposalinity (1.010-1.013 sg) and formalin treatment ASAP.

 

[Baltimore Bryan]

Just to be clear the pictures make the spots much more noticable than the actual fish. These are cb fish so I guess they must have gotten it from a wc fish I introduced. Would other fish in the tank be affected by this as well, or just the clown since the clown is the only one showing the spots, but she looks healthy other than that. I also have inverts in the tank so would I be able to just remove the one fish and treat with a 15 minute freshwater dip as reccomended in Joyce D. Wilkerson's "Clownfish"?
Thanks,
Bryan

 

[1geo]

+1 Mook Man Get yourself some Formalin, 37% (Google the net to find sources). Even if they don't have Brook, Formalin kills a number of other parasites as well and this sure looks like parasites. A Formalin bath every other day for 10 days will cure your fish but then you have to treat the tank they came out of. If its Ich in its various forms or Brook, you have to leave the tank fallow, fish less, for 8 weeks. Remember. if one of your fish has parasites then ALL have parasites even if they exhibit no symptoms.

 

[1geo]

One more thing, if you fish has open wounds, do NOT give it a Formalin bath; it would probably kill the fish.

 

[Baltimore Bryan]

Alright so I'll get some formalin. I've read this is deadly to inverts so I'll have to remove them all when I treat the tank. Should I treat the fish first for 10 days and then the tank?
Bryan

 

[1geo]

The tank has to remain fish-less for 8 weeks. The problem is the eggs of the parasite (assuming its Ich) remain in the substrata of your tank and take up to 8 weeks to hatch into swimmers. If the swimmers do not find a host in 2 days they dies. If your parasite is Brook, it multiplies by cell division and the new cell is a swimmer. Brook swimmers can persist up to 4 weeks without finding a host then they die. To speed up the process increase the temperature of your tank to between 85 and 90 degrees. Having said that, I would still recommend you do not put fish back in the tank for 8 weeks. Remember, if you put the fish back in to early they become reinfected and you have to start all over again.

 

[1geo]

There are treatment chemicals you can use on the tank, such as Revive. The only problem is these chemicals only kill the swimmers, so it would be effective against Brook and Ich swimmers but it would NOT be effective against the parasite's eggs. So you would still have to wait until all the eggs hatched before your tank would be parasite free and in the case of Ich parasites this would be 8 weeks.

 

[Baltimore Bryan]

Thank you for the information. In one of the earlier posts it says to treat fish with formalin bath every other day for 10 days. Would I have to treat the tank every other day or just once? I need to figure out how much formalin I need so I can buy enough. Also, would I be able to take the inverts out but leave the fish in the tank while treating, because I don't have another cycled tank big enough for all of them. I know you stated that the parasites will go back into the hosts (fish) but if the formalin is in the tank with the fish wouldn't it still eradicate parasites within the fish? Sorry for all the questions I've only treated a tank once and it was where I could leave everything in the tank. I appreciate all the advice.
Thanks,
Bryan

 

[1geo]

Do NOT treat the tank with Formalin. Formalin is a deadly toxic to invertebrates, obviously, it MUST NOT be placed in an aquatic system.

 

[Baltimore Bryan]

So if I don't treat the tank, I just treat the fish, I can leave the inverts in the tank? Or will the parasites host off the inverts? I have hermit crabs, snails, an anemone, and some coral. I have a tank to put the fish in once treated but what should they go in while being treated? I don't think I can leave the fish in the original tank, take them out and give them a formalin bath, and put them back in the infected ank (and repeat for 10 days) before moving them to a clean tank, can I? Last thing, I am going to get 16 oz. of formalin, does this sound like enough?
Bryan

 

[1geo]

Once you remove the fish from the infected tank do not put any fish back in for 8 weeks. 16 oz is plenty. For Formalin baths you take a one gallon container of RO water and put 1 cc of Formalin in it. Once mixed you should use it right away. Make sure the bath water has the same SG, PH and temperature as the QT tank the fish will be kept in. What I do is remove one gallon of the QT tank water that the fish are kept in and add 1cc of Formalin, give the fish a 45 minute bath and then return them to the QT tank. I then would replace the gallon I removed from the QT tank to set up the bath. Every other day I would do this all over again for 10 days. So, for the baths you will only use 5 cc of Formalin assuming your bath is one gallon. Make sure you have an air stone in the bath because Formalin depletes the oxygen in the water. And remember, if your fish has an open wound do NOT give it a Formalin bath because it would probably kill the fish. You can also put some Formalin in the QT tank but at a much lower dose then the bath. For the QT tank use 1 cc for every 10 gallons of water every other day. The reasoning behind treating the QT tank is to kill the swimmers in the tank so they will not reinfect the fish. The parasites will not infect the invertebrates in the main tank so just leave them where they are. There are a number of good articles on the net on Formalin treatments, do a Google search and read, read, and read some more.

 

[Baltimore Bryan]

One more stupid question- I don't have an empty tank set up that is cycled. My concern is that if I put all these sick fish into an uncycled hospital tank they will die from high ammonia levels. I have a 55 gallon fish only tank with no wanted inverts (just some pest bristleworms) can I put the fish in that tank and just treat the tank, because I don't care if it kills the inverts in there.
Bryan

 

[francis1123]

a hospital tank should have daily 25% water changes. if you treat a cycled tank, you will kill all the bacteria on the rock and sand and poison the water with ammonia from dead critters. a very bad idea IMO. all you need is a 10g with an air pump and a small heater. that will be plenty to treat your fish. daily water changes is how you control the ammonia if you treat the tank. you cannot have biofiltration, or carbon, or a skimmer in a treated system, as it will kill bio, and carbon/skimmer will pull out the meds.
edit-10g would be fine for just the clown, if you are treating all your fish(not sure how many/size) adjust accordingly. i use a 40g with fish like tangs, large clowns, angels.

 

[1geo]

QT Tank

QT Tank

+1 frances1123 A QT tanks should be sized for the inhabitants. If I had three small clown fish I would use a 10 gal tank. If I had clowns and tangs I would use a much larger tank. USE ONLY RO WATER. There should be nothing in the tank. No sand, no live rocks, only an air stone and a large one, a canister filter HOT without charcoal, a small head pump for circulation, a heater and some small pieces of 2" plastic pipe to give the fish a hiding place. NOTHING ELSE, it will have a empty bottom except for the pipes! You should use a vacuum on the bottom each day to pick up all waste and un-eaten food. Remove and clean the pipes every other day as they collect un-eaten food. The canister HOT filter will do the rest so you don't have any chemistry problems. You can use a Kmart Rubbermaid 10 gal tub for a QT tank. Remember, you will be using 1 gal of the QT water to set up the Formalin baths so every other day you will be adding 10% to the QT tank since you will throw away the Formalin bath water once used. Formalin does not accumulate in the water; after 2 hours it dissipates in the bath water. Not everyone agrees with this statement. This statement was made by the administrator of Reef Fanatics and I believe it. So you have to mix up a fresh Formalin bath each time you give a bath and use it right away. Why not remove your live rock and live sand from your 55 gal tank and put them in a Rubbermaid tub full of salt water and use the tank for your QT tank. On the 55 gal tub you can put a light, circulating pump and a heater to keep the live sand and rock alive an ready to put back in the 55 gal tank once the QT period is over.

 

[1geo]

Rubbermaid Tub

Rubbermaid Tub

In my last post I said, a "55 gal tub," obviously you do not need a 55 gal tub to keep your live sand and live rock. You could probably jam them all in a 10 gal tub or a 20 gal trash can. Just fill the tub or can with salt water put a heater, circulating plump, air stone in the container and a light on top. This should keep your sand and rock alive for the period you have the fish in QT. After the QT period, remove the fish from the 55 gal tank, put your live sand and rock back in an when every thing settles put your fish back in. I assume this 55 gal tank did NOT have any infected fish in it. Is this correct?

 

[Baltimore Bryan]

I guess I can't use the 55 gallon tank as it has two fish in it already and I can't take out all the live rock/ gravel. I picked up the formalin. I will be using a 30 gallon qt tank since I have 6 fish in my infected tank now. Alright since I'm still a newbie with some reef terms, what does a HOT filter mean? Lastly, I don't have RO water, I don't know if I can buy it, is there a reason it has to be RO water? I usually use tap water (no chemicals in my water) and adjust it to have the right salinity and ph.
Bryan

 

[1geo]

HOT means "Hang On Tank" These filters hang on the outside of the tank with the suction and discharge tube in the tank. Google
Marineland H.O.T. Magnum Filter and you will see what I mean. As for the water, every super market I have ever been in sells RO water, reverse osmosis water. When you use tap water you get a host of minerals and chemicals dissolved in the water. This is true wether its well or city water. These could adversely affect the treatment. The only sure safe way to go is to use RO water. Check around there is often a filling station for RO water where you can buy a gallon for .35 cents. If you are using a 30 gallon tank, just fill it up with 20 gallons and see if that will do your fish for the QT period.

 

[1geo]

Obviously, any water with Chlorine in it will kill your fish and you would have to use a Chlorine remover, which again, could adversely affect the treatment.