Is this normal for bonding clowns, or is something wrong?

kelp47

Member
I am new to clownfish, but I understand that they have crazy behaviors, so I wanted to check in on this forum to find out if what I'm witnessing it normal, or if I should be worried. I apologize for the lengthy text, but I understand the details are important if I want any real help. Thanks!

I bought two b/w ocellaris clowns from my lfs on 5/19--one small one and one larger one to speed the bonding process. I slowly acclimated them and placed them in a 10 gal QT. The tank itself has nothing but a few pvc pieces and an airstone. I am also running a hob filter with carbon and a small handful of live rock rubble from my display sump to help keep parameters steady (will toss when finished with QT). Temp is 78, SG is 1.023, and PH is around 7.9. Ammonia might have spiked at 0.05 which is still very low. But I did do a 15% water changed this morning just to be on the safe side.

Also, I had cut off the airstone after a few days of the fish in QT, thinking that all the bubbles and noise might be stressing them and causing them to stay on the other side of the tank. But I turned it back on this morning in case the hob filter might not be providing enough aeration.

With the back story stated now, here is what I've seen. The first full day, they were timid of me, but seemed to be swimming around together and acting fine and eating well. The larger one started nipping at the fins of the smaller one, causing a little bit of raggedness to the fins. This didn't concern me, as I know this is normal, and it was confirmed when I finally spotted the smaller fish do the "submission quiver," which was two or three days ago. At this time, they would venture all around the tank, and even hang around the front when I came near.

But starting yesterday, the larger one hasn't been nipping at the smaller one near as much, and seems a bit lethargic, hanging out in one corner of the tank. The smaller one is right by her side, but moves around a little more. Sometimes the larger one will sit on the bottom for a few seconds, then swim around a little in her immediate area again. But neither fish ventures away from the bottom of that side of the tank. Sometimes they'll go from the front corner to the back corner, but never more than a couple inches away from the side or the bottom. They will eat food that happens to float by them, but they will not go away from this area to get it. The pair are constantly together, even touching much of the time. So is this just the next step of the bonding process? Could they be trying to make this spot "home?"

One other thing to note is that I have spotted some clear and white feces on the bottom. I have actually seem both of them excrete some, but I've also seen them excrete brown feces as well. So I don't know if this indicates internal parasites, or maybe just switching back and forth between SA hatchery food and frozen mysis. But as a precaution, I have given two doses of metronidazole, on 5/23 and 5/25. I've also been soaking their food in garlic once/day. Any thoughts on this? Is this related to their strange (maybe) behavior?

If you read this far, thank you! I appreciate any feedback you can provide.
 
I would keep an eye on them as your doing but it sounds like normal behavior, they swam around a while and found a place they like, a friend has a pair of clowns that dug out the sand under a rock and made that their home instead of one of the nems he has.

Do you have an anenome in the tank with them?
 
No anemone at the moment. They seemed to adopt a "makeshift" anemone earlier--behind the hob filter, but then left it. So maybe it's like you said and that corner is their "anemone." I wonder why they didn't choose the PVC elbow... strange.

Thanks for the ideas.
 
My first recommendation would be to give them a ceramic flowerpot as surrogate anemone. Clownfish love those - sometimes even more than an anemone (if it isn't the right one).

The white feces can be an indication of internal parasites that cause inflammation. A treatment with Praziquantel and Metronidazole should get that under control. I'm trying right now API General Cure (combination of both) and it seems to work.

How do they hold their fins? Do you notice any kind of fin clamping? That is usually one of the first signs of an Amyloodinium ,or with clowns more likely, a Brooklynella infection. The third option could be a bacterial skin infection.
I hope you don't have to deal with any of those.

It is hard to judge the fish's behavior from a description alone without seeing them. Too many subtle things can get missed.
In general if the larger allows the smaller to stay close it's a good sign.
What worries me a bit is the lethargy and sitting on the ground. That can be a sign of disease.
I would suggest to add the flowerpot and see how they react.

Also, if you can take some pictures it may help as well to figure out if their is reason to worry.
 
Thanks for the feedback ThRoewer. I will definitely try the flowerpot and see how that goes. As for the fins, I don't believe they are clamped, which is a relief. But right now, the larger clown just lays on the bottom (on her belly, not her side) with the smaller one tucked right up next to her. I'd like to say it's just a sweet couple, but my gut just says it's not right. I'll take a photo and/or video this evening and post it. (Unfortunately, I have to head to work and then have an evening obligation.)

Yesterday afternoon, the two did get out of their area at some point and move around the tank. They even came to the front of the tank to see me. By evening, they had returned to their corner, acting lethargic. Also, the larger seems to run along the bottom of the tank as if looking for something. I have privacy tint on the back and sides (so I can remove it toward the end of QT), but nothing on the bottom. Maybe the reflections bother her.

There is still no sign of anything on their skin.

I saw only brown feces on the bottom of the aquarium this morning. Since yesterday was the first day I didn't feed them frozen mysis in the evening, I wonder if the difference in the actual color of the food was causing that. Today would be the next dose of Metronidazole, so I'll decide this evening whether they need another dose, depending on what I see in the tank. Could the meds be making them (but more so her) lethargic?

Thanks again, and I'll report back this evening!
 
I still plan to send a photo/video this evening, but I had a thought...
Do you think it's possible that they are "sleeping" instead of lethargic? (Just a hopeful idea.) They were captive bred, and then they went to a store where they were under bright lights all day. Now they are in a quiet room with dim lighting. I don't actually have a light directly over the tank, just a tall lamp that sits beside the tank. Even when the room light is on, it's still a little dim in the tank with the privacy tint on the back and sides. The tank is in front of window, but it's been overcast a lot lately, and again, the privacy tint keeps a lot of that out. So maybe they realize it's time to be active...
Any thoughts? (Even if just to tell me it's a stupid idea ;) )
 
Sitting on the ground is not by itself reason to worry. In a bare tank it may just be a sign that they feel insecure.
See how they behave with a flowerpot - it should make them feel a bit more secure.
 
Well, you two just might be right on target! When I came home this evening and turned on the overhead light, they were huddled in the corner, but then came out and swam all around the tank like nothing was wrong--looking for food, I'm sure, since I'd been at work all day. They swam well, looked well, and ate well. They have continued to swim around and dip through the pvc elbow for quite a while.

I did go get a small flowerpot. (I got a terra cotta one since I've seen this on a lot of forums, so I hope that's okay.) So maybe they'll find this more comforting.

I did see one piece of whitish feces this morning, but also saw some brown this afternoon. I've skipped the metro dose today, but may give it to them again tomorrow if I continue to see white feces.

Thank you two so much for the advice. I'm not near as worried about my clowns now. If all three of us can just hold off for three more weeks, the clowns can move into their permanent home and find a nice spot there.
 
If you got this kind of pot it will be fine.

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So far none of my clowns could ever resist those.
 
And my clowns are back in their corner this morning (photo below). They did get out and swim energetically when I fed them, but after a while retreated to the corner. They are so weird. But I think you are right; they just aren't really comfortable yet. And maybe they're a little bored. I put the flower pot in last night (same kind as yours, ThRoewer), so hopefully they'll check it out soon.

I'll continue to update until I get them into the display for other clown newbies like myself. I'm sure someone else will have the same experience and ask similar questions.

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Well, we had a little drama last night. It's all my fault and I feel so guilty! (After I had cleaned and dried all of my QT supplies, I forgot to put the cap back on the intake of the HOB filter when setting the tank up for the clowns.)

The short story: The smaller of my two clown fish got stuck in the intake of the HOB filter last night. I am really surprised he even made it through the night, but he's swimming around fine this morning. But... he does have the scales scraped off a good section of one side, and his fins are a bit tattered (but seem to work okay). Since this is not really a clown fish-specific situation, I've posted for advice in a different part of this forum. Just updating this thread.
 
ThRoewer, the flower pot has definitely been of interest to the clowns! From what I've seen at this point, they've been taking turns hanging out in the pot. I don't know if it's because it's a new object, or if they are not hanging together because of the male's injuries (he's doing much better and has eaten well, by the way).

I have seen a lot more of the "submissive male quiver" today. And the female has been charging at him, but I don't think she's nipping his fins anymore. It's almost like they have an agreement that he's injured, so she'll won't nip if he'll just give in...
 
It takes a few days until they completely accept the pot. It usually goes faster if other fish are in the tank.
That the male has to stay on the outside of the pot is completely normal, especially at night, for two clownfish that have not yet completely bonded.
But since both want the pot the smaller one will accept the larger ones dominance. This will definitely speed up the bonding.
 
Just thought I'd post a quick update on my clowns. They moved into the display on 8/6/15. Neither seemed interested in the anemone for quite a while. I decided patience was the best course of action, and it finally worked itself out! The male started poking around the anemone about a month ago, but never really wallowed in it. The female never gave it a thought. Then when I came back from vacation two weeks ago, the female was wallowing all in the anemone and seems to love it. The anemone seems happy as well. The female won't let the male in yet, but I'm sure that will work itself out as well.
 
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