Every time I turn the unti off and then back on, it pumps water regardless of the level. It's quite frustrating on a nano cube. If I need to pull out water for feeding or water test, I have to turn off the top off so that I can replace it with saltwater. When I turn it back on, it dumps RO water for 8-10 seconds. Even after turning down the flow to "nano" it creates a measurable difference in the salinity level. It's made even worse if I have to do a few things with my tank on different occasions in one day because each time it adds RO water to the tank. I thought the purpose of this system was to try and keep the salinity levels as close to the same as possible (thats why theres a fansy laser sensor) and not add fresh water every time it's powered down and on; and not to keep overfilling after each time it has run. This was my first tunze purchase and had I know this unit does that, I would have saved myself the money and bought a top off for half the price that would keep my levels fluctuating no more than this unit does. You'd think that if they have been making the product for how long they claim they have they'd figure out that the system should not be automatically triggered by being turned on until it's had time to check the water level.
Is this normal for the osmolator/this product sucks
- Thread starter ilyad
- Start date
Tagging along, but I believe from previous readings the unit pumps until it knows the state of the optical sensor.
Maybe a better design would be off until you know you need it (or at least delay the pumping on startup by 20 seconds to allow the time for the sensor to get it's state.
Doesn't bother me on a larger tank, but I do see the point.
Out of intertest, does pulling 20 or 30ml for testing really affect salinty that much in a Nano? Whats the difference in salinity before and after? Can you even measure it?
Maybe a better design would be off until you know you need it (or at least delay the pumping on startup by 20 seconds to allow the time for the sensor to get it's state.
Doesn't bother me on a larger tank, but I do see the point.
Out of intertest, does pulling 20 or 30ml for testing really affect salinty that much in a Nano? Whats the difference in salinity before and after? Can you even measure it?
Tagging along, but I believe from previous readings the unit pumps until it knows the state of the optical sensor.
Maybe a better design would be off until you know you need it (or at least delay the pumping on startup by 20 seconds to allow the time for the sensor to get it's state.
Doesn't bother me on a larger tank, but I do see the point.
Out of intertest, does pulling 20 or 30ml for testing really affect salinty that much in a Nano? Whats the difference in salinity before and after? Can you even measure it?
Maybe a better design would be off until you know you need it (or at least delay the pumping on startup by 20 seconds to allow the time for the sensor to get it's state.
Doesn't bother me on a larger tank, but I do see the point.
Out of intertest, does pulling 20 or 30ml for testing really affect salinty that much in a Nano? Whats the difference in salinity before and after? Can you even measure it?
I end up pulling out more water than that when I feed frozen food for example. In any case, the tunze did not have to top off once all day, I had to turn it off 3 times for feeding/testing, and misc tank stuff I did (I usually don't have to power down as often) but in any case, the salinity dropped from 1.025 to 1.024 (actually just slightly above that) but to me that is a GIANT swing from only 3 start ups. I measured how much it pumped out and it was around a quart of RO water. This thing is not at all a precision top off unit. It's a piece of junk on a small tank. I can see it not being a big deal on a tank 100 gallons or so, but on a 20 gallon it is noticeable.
On a small enough tank that unnecessary behavior could be bad. Then again, Tunze might be open about saying that frequent power cycling on a small tank can have adverse effects.
That said... The bad news is Tunze just announced a Nano Osmolator. I'm sure a Google would pull up good info. I wonder if that product addresses this issue...
That said... The bad news is Tunze just announced a Nano Osmolator. I'm sure a Google would pull up good info. I wonder if that product addresses this issue...
James77
Team RC
You could even try simple things like pinching the water feed line with something to reduce the flow so that it dumps less.
You could also put water in ahead of time before you feed or test
so you don't need to be shutting off a piece of equipment that is not really meant to be shut off so often. Going to scoop out a thimbleful of water....throw a thimbleful in before you do.
You could also put water in ahead of time before you feed or test
so you don't need to be shutting off a piece of equipment that is not really meant to be shut off so often. Going to scoop out a thimbleful of water....throw a thimbleful in before you do.
From what I read it has smaller magnets for mounting the sensors and also drops the voltage it runs the metering punp at = less water pumped at any 1 time.
The osmolator is not designed to be turned off and on and I am puzzled by why this would be an issue, why do you need to turn it off and on so frequently? Simply plugging it in and leaving it alone would prevent this issue. I would set it up with the flow rate of the pump turned down and leave it plugged in and the issue should be solved. If it truly is pumping for 10 seconds on start up there may be an issue it should pump for only a few seconds at most and not enough to affect the specific gravity if the pump is turned all the way down.
What I suspect is happening is that since it is likely a brand new unit and the optic sensor is attracting bubbles (new plastic repels water and attracts air) a bubble is occasionally sticking to it and causing it to pump longer than it should. I would rinse the sensor in hot soapy water to reduce the attraction of bubbles, a few days of use will also do this. The sensor only detects air vs water so it should not be in an area with a lot of bubbles. I would also be sure water is not siphoning, it is critical that the water level in the reservoir is below the end point of the hose where it clamps onto the tank.
The Nano Osmolator is a no frills economy model, it is designed to compete with all the other $100 top off systems on the market but it is not as precise as the 3155 Osmolator which will still remain as the high end top off. The Nano has no optic sensor only a float switch and 5 minute safety time out and the pump runs at a much slower speed so top off is very slow and limited to smaller tanks. On the Nano Osmolator the float switch can and will fail as they all do, the float switch is not guaranteed and will require periodic replacement. This is why on the 3155 the float is a rarely called upon safety and not an everyday use top off switch. We offer this product solely to compete with the other economy auto top off units and we have made it safer than any of the others available by the 5 minute time out and low pumping rate but in no way does it replace the 3155. The name derives from the fact that it is not suitable for a system larger than about 50 gallons due to the short safety time out and low rate of top off flow but it is truly an economy version.
What I suspect is happening is that since it is likely a brand new unit and the optic sensor is attracting bubbles (new plastic repels water and attracts air) a bubble is occasionally sticking to it and causing it to pump longer than it should. I would rinse the sensor in hot soapy water to reduce the attraction of bubbles, a few days of use will also do this. The sensor only detects air vs water so it should not be in an area with a lot of bubbles. I would also be sure water is not siphoning, it is critical that the water level in the reservoir is below the end point of the hose where it clamps onto the tank.
The Nano Osmolator is a no frills economy model, it is designed to compete with all the other $100 top off systems on the market but it is not as precise as the 3155 Osmolator which will still remain as the high end top off. The Nano has no optic sensor only a float switch and 5 minute safety time out and the pump runs at a much slower speed so top off is very slow and limited to smaller tanks. On the Nano Osmolator the float switch can and will fail as they all do, the float switch is not guaranteed and will require periodic replacement. This is why on the 3155 the float is a rarely called upon safety and not an everyday use top off switch. We offer this product solely to compete with the other economy auto top off units and we have made it safer than any of the others available by the 5 minute time out and low pumping rate but in no way does it replace the 3155. The name derives from the fact that it is not suitable for a system larger than about 50 gallons due to the short safety time out and low rate of top off flow but it is truly an economy version.
Meanmike
New member
I own two of them and while I have never timed them I can say 10 seconds is an accurate guess as to how long they run when turned back on.
Because if I dont turn it off and pull out the salt water from the tank, it replaces it with RO water, in turn causing the salinity to go down... All I want to do is to turn it off so that I have time to replace the water. If I add the water before removing it from the tank, it triggers the float switch and the alarm. Second, when I wish to feed my coral and have to turn off the return pumps, the levels rise above the safety float, once again causing the alarm to go off. I know I can turn the alarm to be silent, but the whole point of it is so that I am warned if the water is too low in the reservoir or if it has topped off too much.
Or its a problem if access to remove the hose is difficult. The point is not that there are other ways around it, its that what is considered the "top of the line" product which is in the top price range for this device should not have you figure out "fixes" for what could be resolved through a better design. I dont expect ecotech to design a pump that turns on at full blast for the first 10 seconds of operation and ask its customers to just pull it out of the tank while it does that... that would be ludicrous, and so is asking someone to just unhook the return hose every time after charging a premium price. Personally understand the fact that it tops off a little extra amount so as not to turn the pump as frequently (and the extra time on that is ok, as that water will evaporate), what I dont see a point to is for the pump to run right off the bat when its just turned on...
Its true... and the worst, is that I have to pump it about 3.5 feet up, setting it on the nano setting doesnt create enough pressure for it to actually pump the water up that high... and the lowest setting at which it does, the stream is quite steady, so the 10 seconds makes a big deal.
I had to go ahead and buy a check valve, I'll see if that, along with the minimum pump speed will help the problem, but Im still frustrated that I have to do that. Id expect this from a DIY kit or a cheapo top off, but not from tunze. Although this is the first time Ive dealt with a tunze product and as of right now, my expectation of their products is not so high.
Now I dont own any other top off system, so I cant bash them too much considering even in this state it quite possibly might be the best, but it would have been nice to know that this is a possible issue on a nano tank (none of the instructions or reviews or ads mentioned this - at least none that I could find in the two months Ive spent researching what the best system for my tank is)
chadfarmer
Premium Member
do you take a lot of water out for testing ? the most i would take out is 20cc or a syringe with out the needle and than you can add that back with out the ATO going off
disaster999
New member
the problem isnt with the product but you are misusing it. bad mouthing a company and their product because you are not using it as intended isnt smart.
not sure why you feel the need to pull so much water from the tank to feed or test. like chadfarmer said, just a 20ml syringe full of tank water is enough to do all your test.
not sure why you feel the need to pull so much water from the tank to feed or test. like chadfarmer said, just a 20ml syringe full of tank water is enough to do all your test.
I am sorry for the delay, I was actually on a short vacation last week. Before this week is over I will put a short video on You Tube explaining all the functions so we can be on the same page of what is going on, if you time it with a stop watch on a newer model, it should only be a few seconds run time. On much older models it might be as long as 10 seconds but this would be rare. I suspect what you are seeing is the 10 second overfill which is correct, the controller is set to run 10 seconds after a top off is registered, so if the water was below the optic sensor when it was turned on, it will run to top off + 10 seconds. This was deliberately added some years ago (around 2004 I believe) to reduce how often it cycles on and off and the accompanying pump noise.
I have finished testing and while I was not able to get a satisfactory video due to the 3 points we needed to get in frame and the odd angles I can verbally explain the results, I was wrong in some of the info I relayed on the newest models of osmolator and I have confirmed the function with the factory in Germany and it is correct. On start up the unit does a self diagnostic of the optic sensor and if it is submerged and this triggers a failure it is an exception to the norm, it should be in air on start up so it can calibrate itself with this reference.
1) If the optic sensor is submerged when the unit is plugged in, this gives a fault code, i.e. the four lights flash on, followed by a red too low light. In this condition, the osmolator will run the pump for roughly 20 seconds (we did three runs and timed them with a Android phone stop watch feature and recorded 22 seconds, 20 seconds and 21 seconds respectively) and on start up due to this system error. However, in 20 seconds, pumping against 1ft of head pressure with the potentiometer turned fully toward nano, the pump added only 8 oz of top off water (1/16th of a gallon).
2) In the normal start up, optic sensor is above the water, the unit gives no fault, i.e. the four light flash, followed by green level light, the unit does its normal top off followed by a 10 second overfill which adds 4oz (1/32nd of a gallon) in the same operating condition.
Assuming the unit is not repeatedly unplugged and plugged in and allowed to run normally the salinity will not change unless salt water is removed and replaced by fresh water as the overfill will always be by the same amount and always triggered at the same water level, you also need to bear in mind a skimmer removes some salt water so in the normal course of a tanks operation with a freshwater top off sg will drift downward if this is not compensated for and salt is also lost as salt creep around the tank. A single fault code run with sensor submerged and the 20 second run time as outlined above would result in a change to the sg of roughly .00008 as best as I can calculate (20 gallons is 2560 oz, (2552 oz * 1.025 + 8 oz *1.000)/2560.
1) If the optic sensor is submerged when the unit is plugged in, this gives a fault code, i.e. the four lights flash on, followed by a red too low light. In this condition, the osmolator will run the pump for roughly 20 seconds (we did three runs and timed them with a Android phone stop watch feature and recorded 22 seconds, 20 seconds and 21 seconds respectively) and on start up due to this system error. However, in 20 seconds, pumping against 1ft of head pressure with the potentiometer turned fully toward nano, the pump added only 8 oz of top off water (1/16th of a gallon).
2) In the normal start up, optic sensor is above the water, the unit gives no fault, i.e. the four light flash, followed by green level light, the unit does its normal top off followed by a 10 second overfill which adds 4oz (1/32nd of a gallon) in the same operating condition.
Assuming the unit is not repeatedly unplugged and plugged in and allowed to run normally the salinity will not change unless salt water is removed and replaced by fresh water as the overfill will always be by the same amount and always triggered at the same water level, you also need to bear in mind a skimmer removes some salt water so in the normal course of a tanks operation with a freshwater top off sg will drift downward if this is not compensated for and salt is also lost as salt creep around the tank. A single fault code run with sensor submerged and the 20 second run time as outlined above would result in a change to the sg of roughly .00008 as best as I can calculate (20 gallons is 2560 oz, (2552 oz * 1.025 + 8 oz *1.000)/2560.
Rosscopeco
New member
A half hour maintenance button would be handy. Similar to the feed timer on the 7096.
That said the osmolator is still on my top ten list of must haves for any tank I own. Two years running Kalk through one and it never missed a beat.
Someone mentioned before that a tap would help with this issue. Surely it isn't that hard to agree that the OP is using a unit designed for much larger sytems and a simple irrigation fitting would reduce the flow to an an acceptable level for a small nano. All the answers have already been given.
That said the osmolator is still on my top ten list of must haves for any tank I own. Two years running Kalk through one and it never missed a beat.
Someone mentioned before that a tap would help with this issue. Surely it isn't that hard to agree that the OP is using a unit designed for much larger sytems and a simple irrigation fitting would reduce the flow to an an acceptable level for a small nano. All the answers have already been given.
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