Is topping off direct to sump safe?

[Waxxiemann]

I am thinking of topping up my tank striaght from my RO/DI unit using a solonoid and a float switch with latching.

Currently I am using a peristaltic pump but I blew my float switch somehow so I want to just use the peri pump for a CA RX in the near future instead.

Anyway, has anyone done this longterm? I am paranoid about flooding. Are there any really good redundancies or failsafes that I can look into to minimize my chances of flooding?

Thanks,
Waxx

 

[rongleaves]

I'm interested in doing this as well. I'm thinking of using two solonoids and a double float switch. All from autotopoff.com

Interested in seeing what others think about this as well, recommendations?

 

[Waxxiemann]

That's the float I was looking at as well, you can get the latching upgrade for the double float as well as a backup which stops the whole systems in the event that top float fails.

 

[Waxxiemann]

I like the idea of using 2 solonoids.

 

[Waxxiemann]

I think a good idea is also to use a timer so that that top off only occurs at night and only for like 4 or 5 hours so that it wouldn't be able to flood over one night.

 

[rongleaves]

I would also like to connect it to a kalk reactor and dose only at night. One I'll be there most likely and two PH is lower and that would be the best time to add kalk. I just not 100% sure on how to best do it safetly.

 

[Waxxiemann]

It's going to boild down to weather you trust your solonoid or not me thinks.

 

[tgunn]

How's this for risking it?

That float value is hooked RIGHT UP to my RO/DI unit. I have a little ball valve before it that I have dialed back quite a it. So far no problems (but you know that means that my sump is currently overflowing as we speak)...

That said, one of my MANY "to do" items is to build a top off container that will fill up with a latched refill. That way I have around 5g of RO/DI water gravity feeding to the sump float valve I have now. The plan is to have it so when the water drains down the 5g container will refill. A safety float valve in the sump will ensure that it the sump water level gets to high the 5g container will not get refilled...



Tyler

 

[crumbletop]

Re: Is topping off direct to sump safe?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9575498#post9575498 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Waxxiemann
I am thinking of topping up my tank striaght from my RO/DI unit using a solonoid and a float switch with latching.

No, this is not safe. It is hooking your sump to an unlimited water supply. If the valve ever failed, OR if something else ever goes wrong like an overflowing skimmer, you'll continue to pump water into the sump. This usually happens when you are out of town for several days. A limited reservoir from which you pump RO/DI is a much safer option because if something fails the damage is limited to the amount of water in the reservoir.

 

[tgunn]

Re: Re: Is topping off direct to sump safe?

Re: Re: Is topping off direct to sump safe?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9583235#post9583235 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by crumbletop
No, this is not safe. It is hooking your sump to an unlimited water supply. If the valve ever failed, OR if something else ever goes wrong like an overflowing skimmer, you'll continue to pump water into the sump. This usually happens when you are out of town for several days. A limited reservoir from which you pump RO/DI is a much safer option because if something fails the damage is limited to the amount of water in the reservoir.

I think a system like I mentioned would probably work just fine while still providing a more than adequate level of safety.
Sure, there is the potential that BOTH the float valve in the sump fails AND the solenoid sticks open, but the chances of that happening are quite low. You could even throw a float valve into the reservoir so that you'd have 3 points of failure required to cause problems..

With a fixed reservoir you're still going to have to fill that up every now and then. And I know from personal experience that filling a large reservoir with RO/DI water typically means, "I'll go do something else while this fills". And from my own experience that means waking up in the morning and saying, "OHCRAP!", only to find a large puddle on the basement floor. :lol:

Tyler

 

[dbrann11]

I hear ya there... In 5 months reefing I've forgotten to turn off the RO/DI at least once per month. Then i proceed with the towel and box fan bonanza in the laundry room screaming about being an idiot. Only flooded a tank once though! lol.

 

[tgunn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9583523#post9583523 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dbrann11
I hear ya there... In 5 months reefing I've forgotten to turn off the RO/DI at least once per month. Then i proceed with the towel and box fan bonanza in the laundry room screaming about being an idiot. Only flooded a tank once though! lol.

The WORST I've done was when I decided to "save water" by filling the washing machine with my RO waste water.

After forgetting it over night I woke up to a flooded laundry room (darn 4:1 waste ratio), AND a flooded fish room...

Needless to say my waste water now goes down the drain and I have a float valve on the bucket I fill up for water changes.

Tyler

 

[Waxxiemann]

That's EXACTLY what I've done a number of times. I'll just start filling up my brute can and run out and do some errands only to completly forget my RO/DI is running.

My skimmer overflows (when it does overflow) right back into my sump, so that is not a concern.

What I am doing now is using a single float and a peristaltic pump with a resivoir to pump kalk top-off into the sump at night. I find the pump starting up and turning off like 20 times a night like this though.

Well this failed when I went on holidays and my return pump nearly ran dry. I am still not sure what happened but the fuse for my pump was blown and the float switch was also non functional when I got back.

I am looking for a more reliable method to topoff but I find myself frustrated. Maybe the peristaltic pump and a latching float switch may be the answer.

I'd like to use this peristaltic pump for a CA reactor instead of having to buy another when I do get a CA reactor as well.

 

[crumbletop]

Re: Re: Re: Is topping off direct to sump safe?

Re: Re: Re: Is topping off direct to sump safe?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9583381#post9583381 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tgunn
I think a system like I mentioned would probably work just fine while still providing a more than adequate level of safety.
Sure, there is the potential that BOTH the float valve in the sump fails AND the solenoid sticks open, but the chances of that happening are quite low. You could even throw a float valve into the reservoir so that you'd have 3 points of failure required to cause problems..

If the sump gets low, your system will keep filling it. Period. So if it gets low because the skimmer is overflowing, or your drain from your tank plugs, etc., water will keep flowing into the sump from the RO/DI and you'll end up with a fresh water tank. This isn't theoretical -- it actually happens and there are threads on RC that document that...

With a fixed reservoir you're still going to have to fill that up every now and then. And I know from personal experience that filling a large reservoir with RO/DI water typically means, "I'll go do something else while this fills". And from my own experience that means waking up in the morning and saying, "OHCRAP!", only to find a large puddle on the basement floor. :lol:

I have my RO/DI plumbed into a float valve on my reservoir with a ball valve in between. Every 4 or 5 days, I turn the ball valve to fill up the reservoir. The float valve keeps it from overflowing.

Bottom line is that the OP posted that he is paranoid about flooding. Plumbing direct to an RO/DI is an accident waiting to happen. No way plumbing direct to RO/DI is less risk than using a limited reservoir...

 

[Waxxiemann]

I think that I'll do is this:

Get an 80 gallon barrel for RO/DI water storage which I'll fill up manually (I know, I know) when ever it gets low.

I'll use a latching float switch in the sump (with backup) to turn on my peristaltic pump once a night.

I think this is the safest bet. Plus with the latching action, my pump won't be turning on and off all night long.

 

[tgunn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9583594#post9583594 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Waxxiemann
That's EXACTLY what I've done a number of times. I'll just start filling up my brute can and run out and do some errands only to completly forget my RO/DI is running.

My skimmer overflows (when it does overflow) right back into my sump, so that is not a concern.

What I am doing now is using a single float and a peristaltic pump with a resivoir to pump kalk top-off into the sump at night. I find the pump starting up and turning off like 20 times a night like this though.

Well this failed when I went on holidays and my return pump nearly ran dry. I am still not sure what happened but the fuse for my pump was blown and the float switch was also non functional when I got back.

I am looking for a more reliable method to topoff but I find myself frustrated. Maybe the peristaltic pump and a latching float switch may be the answer.

I'd like to use this peristaltic pump for a CA reactor instead of having to buy another when I do get a CA reactor as well.

Why not get an Aqualifter to use as the top off pump? They're DIRT cheap. $20 from www.bigalsonline.ca (they're a Canadian place). They pump maybe 3 GPH I think it is. For top off purposes I think this would be more than enough..

Tyler

 

[tgunn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9583680#post9583680 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Waxxiemann
I think that I'll do is this:

Get an 80 gallon barrel for RO/DI water storage which I'll fill up manually (I know, I know) when ever it gets low.

I'll use a latching float switch in the sump (with backup) to turn on my peristaltic pump once a night.

I think this is the safest bet. Plus with the latching action, my pump won't be turning on and off all night long.

Sounds like a plan.

Tip; on your 80 gallon barrel, install a float valve and use that to refill the container. I have a float valve in my 20g trash can for water changes. I just open up the ball valve feeding the can, and it fills to the top overnight. In the morning I turn off the ball valve to ensure a float valve failure can't cause problems.

Tyler

 

[tgunn]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Is topping off direct to sump safe?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Is topping off direct to sump safe?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9583627#post9583627 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by crumbletop
If the sump gets low, your system will keep filling it. Period. So if it gets low because the skimmer is overflowing, or your drain from your tank plugs, etc., water will keep flowing into the sump from the RO/DI and you'll end up with a fresh water tank. This isn't theoretical -- it actually happens and there are threads on RC that document that...

I have my RO/DI plumbed into a float valve on my reservoir with a ball valve in between. Every 4 or 5 days, I turn the ball valve to fill up the reservoir. The float valve keeps it from overflowing.

Bottom line is that the OP posted that he is paranoid about flooding. Plumbing direct to an RO/DI is an accident waiting to happen. No way plumbing direct to RO/DI is less risk than using a limited reservoir...

I see what you're saying, and I don't doubt the possibility. If your fixed size bin is large enough compared to your tank volume you are up the creek too I guess. Sorry, not trying to be argumentative, just trying to catch all the angles..

You're using the same method I use on my water change bucket.. That makes sense..


Tyler

 

[crumbletop]

Re: Is topping off direct to sump safe?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9584349#post9584349 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tgunn
I see what you're saying, and I don't doubt the possibility. If your fixed size bin is large enough compared to your tank volume you are up the creek too I guess. Sorry, not trying to be argumentative, just trying to catch all the angles..

You're using the same method I use on my water change bucket.. That makes sense..


Tyler

Yeah, hooking up to an 80 gallon reservoir would put you in the same boat, on that same creek

 

[caseyjones]

Have you ever tested the first bit of water out of an RO/DI unit? Everytime I use my RO I have to wait for a gallon or to to run out before my TDS comes down to 0. The 1 gallon or 2 always run out above 60-70 on the TDS meter. That is the reason I would not hook it directly up.