Jargrog's LED stupid question thread.

[oreo57]

Their full of bad voodoo.

Naah just bad capacitors and really good planned obsolescence.. Can't even count the thousands wasted on penny parts..

Generally I use just a plain old power cord 14-18 gauge to go from PSU to the light fixture supplying voltage to the drivers (if remotely mounted) Then just whatever I have laying around from driver to LEDs, generally I use 22 gauge (only cause it's what I have on hand in bulk from communications cables, but whatever you have on hand between 18 and 26 gauge is fine. 18 and 20 gauge can be a bit clumbsy and stiff to work with sometimes though. Multi-stranded wire rather than solid core is best. Current over 1000mA or long wire runs in excess of a few feet between driver and LEDs use the lower gauge larger wire within that range.

your the first to suggest stranded wire..
Anyways I use "thermostat wire" which is 18ga and when you buy higher line counts say 8/cord gives you 8 colors..
It is stiff and if you don't solder well, can easily pop off the "stars"..
I would prefer 20ga...
The best wire I've never used.. I like the idea of pre-tinned but would like it a wee bit heavier
http://shop.stevesleds.com/24-Gauge-LED-Power-wire-24-Gauge-LED-wire.htm

Some use Cat5 for all the wiring.. which, if I remember right is 23ga...

http://shop.stevesleds.com/8-strand-23-ga-cable-CAT6-Cat6.htm
3 cents/foot per "strand"..
Alternate for multi-channel build. I believe Lowes has it per foot..
http://www.irrigationdirect.com/we-...=google_base&gclid=CNSfhP282L0CFbFFMgod8AUAiw

most places carry thermostate wire in "odd" configurations.. i.e 3 or 5 or 7.. quite annoying..

 

[zachts]

First on this thread to suggest it anyway. It's been prefered for years. Steve's "recomends" solid core because all his drivers use push in connectors, and it's probably cheaper.

Stranded is way easier to work with and solder, it is also more flexible and less prone to breaking if frequently wiggled or bent during install or usage. It also allows for less stress on the solder pads as things heat up and cool down as it flexes more easily and not as a solid piece.


Anyway, the wire gauge is all that really matters, just use what you have or can get, and whatever works for you.

that 18 gauge solid core irrigation wire would be a bear to get soldered securely and cleanly onto an led pad........but it would make a nice supply cable from a remote driver bank up to a fixture if other wire was used in the fixture.......

 

[oreo57]

First on this thread to suggest it anyway. It's been preferred for years. Steve's "recommends" solid core because all his drivers use push in connectors, and it's probably cheaper.

Stranded is way easier to work with and solder, it is also more flexible and less prone to breaking if frequently wiggled or bent during install or usage. It also allows for less stress on the solder pads as things heat up and cool down as it flexes more easily and not as a solid piece.


Anyway, the wire gauge is all that really matters, just use what you have or can get, and whatever works for you.

that 18 gauge solid core irrigation wire would be a bear to get soldered securely and cleanly onto an led pad........but it would make a nice supply cable from a remote driver bank up to a fixture if other wire was used in the fixture.......

Actually most of his LED's are pad solder types..
It is cheaper
It is less flexible
It is a matter of opinion

stranded, for me, has more of a tendency to migrate apart and leave tiny shorting hairs . so I prefer solid.
As do others

both are fine, stranded is better if you are going long distances with higher current. Solid is much much much easier to work with IMO

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/309318-solid-vs-stranded-wire/

My personal preference is smaller than 18ga but "common" (i.e cheapest and more off the rack) availability is 18ga furnace wire and 23/24ga CAT 5
for solid..
Doing separate diode spread I also like the stiffness .. (bend and place w/ no droop)

Then there is this:

Weaknesses

Solid wire is more resistant to weathering and atmospheric exposures due to its decreased surface area. Solid wire is more resistant to corrosion and other adverse weathering effects. Stranded wire is more suited to uses in a controlled atmosphere and is very susceptible to corrosion.

http://www.ehow.com/about_6404773_solid-vs_-stranded-copper-wire.html

Still, it is whatever one finds easier........

 

[Jargrog]

Update time,
All parts have arrived and are partially assembled. I might actually have this up and running this weekend. So far all LEDs and terminal blocks (5 wide) are mounted to the heat sinks. I found a 3/32" hole stuffed with a #4 x 1/2" pan head sheet metal screws worked well. The screw cuts threads into the heat sink and holds nice and tight. Did my continuity check to make sure nothing was shorted. So far so good.
I ordered one of those Coralux 6 LDD boards and soldered that together. I never soldered anything to a little board like that so I was a bit nervous but I took it slow and had no problems. Probably could have added a bit more solder to some of those connections but I was afraid of adding too much and shorting something. Did continuity checks from the pins on the DIP sockets to the terminal blocks and all seems well.
I adjusted the power supply (Meanwell SE-350-48) to output 52v. Should be enough as long as my LEDs don't need more then 3.26 volts. It's adjustable to 56v. Should I go higher just in case?
The last big hurdle is to solder the wiring onto the LEDs. I'll be using some CAT6 cable for that. Teeny tiny little wire onto teeny tiny little solder pads ought to be a blast (especially those 3-ups). I go from LDD+ to LED1+ then LED1- to LED2+ .. and so on, right?

Thanks again for the help

 

[perkint]

If you run it with too low voltage, the LEDs will not all fire, but it shouldn't harm anything. Might get some flashing LEDs (on and off about once a second).

And yes, +ve supply to +ve solder pad, then -ve pad to +ve pad until finally -ve pad to -ve supply.

Tim

 

[oreo57]

I adjusted the power supply (Meanwell SE-350-48) to output 52v. Should be enough as long as my LEDs don't need more then 3.26 volts. It's adjustable to 56v. Should I go higher just in case?
The last big hurdle is to solder the wiring onto the LEDs. I'll be using some CAT6 cable for that. Teeny tiny little wire onto teeny tiny little solder pads ought to be a blast (especially those 3-ups). I go from LDD+ to LED1+ then LED1- to LED2+ .. and so on, right?

Thanks again for the help

Just remember voltage adds and leave 3V for the LDD...in series strings.
In your case 52-3 gives you 49V per series string.. That is approx 15 LED's MAX per string...No big deal going less..

 

[Jargrog]

Finally done! Actually, its been running for over a month now. Overall the color to me looks white with a bluish tint with all the LEDs set to 100%. I'd say it's maybe only slightly bluer then my power compacts. I like it I tried turning down the blues and even the 2700k a little but in the end I turned everything back up to full power. If I have any complaint it would be I was hoping it would be brighter overall. I had envisioned my tank being this giant beacon of light that all the neighbors would complain to the authorities about but that just isn't the case. At full power it seems no brighter then the system it replaced. At least to my eyes. Still, if my method is accurate, I calculate I'm using about 158 watts to achieve the same brightness that 384 watts was giving me. I'd call that a win.
I set my storm controller so that 'sunset' mode shuts off the 2700k, 5000k and blues leaving the royal blues to slowly dim to zero over 60min. I never knew I had corals that glow! What used to be mostly a boring dull brownish color now shines back a bright green or pink. I can even see the green fluorescence when the white LEDs are on. That right there made this project worth it
Color blending is very good. I have to really look hard to see any kind of multicolor banding or shadows and even that is only on the highest points of my aqua scape. If your not looking for it you won't notice it. I do, however, see different colored shadows from some of the wiring on the wall behind the tank. I can live with that. Shimmer effect is practically nonexistent but that's due to my lack of surface agitation.
The heat sinks get noticeably warm. I grabbed one last night just before 'sunset' time and after counting to 10 Mississippi I figured I should probably let go. Its warmer then what comes out of my hot water faucet but not much more. I don't expect heat will be a problem.

Thanks again Zachts and Oreo57 for the help.

 

[perkint]

Speaking very generally, you can hold things up to nearly 70°C so if the heat sinks are getting too hot to hold, they are probably at least 60 to 70°C. That means your LEDs could easily be 20°C above that, which is not going to kill them immediately, but is higher than is ideal for them.

Even a slow fan over them would make a big difference...

Tim

 

[zachts]

140 F (typical high mark for a water heater) would be roughly 60 C......and at that temp I sure can't hold onto something for 10 seconds with out it being painful, let along stick my hand under the hot water from the tap. I'll surmise that Jargrog's hot water is not that hot, so I think he's going to be just fine running the way it is.

 

[oreo57]

On my passively cooled LED's I find 120F (49C) fairly "uncomfortable" @10 sec..
I hate fans...

I'll run them @ lower wattage w/ more LED's if I have to..

 

[go fast]

Now that it's done we'd love to see some pictures!

Thanks everyone on the post for all the insight.
J

 

[Jargrog]

Finally got my hands on a camera. I hope I do the correctly.
http://imgur.com/a/9UOyW

First image is a shot of the heat sinks and LEDs.
Second is the back side where I mounted the controller and LDDs. The power supply is sitting on top of the hood for now. I may move it to the cellar with the sump.
The rest of the images are of the tank with all lights at 100% or royal blues only. You can tell which is which
On the third image if you look at the mushrooms to the right you can see what looks like a disco or spotlighting effect. Some days it would be there and the next it was gone. I finally figured out it's caused by condensation forming water drops on the underside of the glass cover. Some of the larger drops act like lenses and shine each individual color. If I tilt the glass all the drops 'run' and the effect goes away. A minor annoyance at worse.

Thanks again for all the help.

 

[perkint]

Looks good

Tim