JCole's box of rocks
- Thread starter JCOLE
- Start date
Thanks John! I will take these as a win considering they were brown turds on the edge of death a year ago during my bacteria outbreak. Glad to see they are coming back to life.
Me too
What caused the outbreak and how did you fix it?
My old 150-gallon tank was doing well until around April 2022, when it began to deteriorate rapidly (most of the pictures on the first page of this build thread were taken around this time). It was a slow burn, and the corals lost their color before succumbing to STN. Every coral in the tank was affected. I racked my brain to figure out what was causing it. I assumed it was my lighting, the Kalk I was using, high potassium levels, and so on. However, nothing I did should have resulted in the problems I encountered. Nothing I did made things better either.
After going through many logs trying to figure out what I did, I remembered that I had taken my UV offline in April because it was leaking and I was going to buy a larger one anyway for the new tank. This is when I began to suspect it was caused by bacteria or pathogens. I sent a sample to Aquabiomics, and the results showed that I had an extremely high level of Oceanospirillaceae bacteria.
Despite the high levels, Aquabiomics said my tank appeared to be healthy and did not have a reason as to why my system was going through this.
I did some research and discovered a link to a student thesis on Bacterial Communities in Healthy and Diseased Acropora cervicornis. I noticed in the paper that they found high levels of Oceanospirillaceae within the Gammaproteobacteria family or category in the diseased corals. These references were found on pages 47, 95, 96, and 102. It all started 3-4 weeks after I turned off my old UV, so it made sense that it could be a bacterial problem. I am convinced that my old UV was inhibiting a harmful pathogen or bacteria and that its removal allowed it to thrive.
I was talking with Mike Paletta about this and decided to use Ciprofloxacin. After just two weeks of using Cipro my corals completely turned around. I did not have any more STN, and color came back to all of the corals.
My filter socks bucket had a nasty black sludge at the bottom that I had never seen before. It looked like black paint. It appeared to be dead bacterial slough.
It resolved my low pH issue both during and after my dosage. My pH used to fluctuate between 7.8 and 7.99 on a daily basis. My pH rose to 8.16 at its peak during and after treatment. That is a significant pH increase.
pH levels during Cipro treatment
I know there has been a lot of talk recently about antibiotics and how harmful they are. However, I can say from personal experience that Cipro saved and revived my system.
I did, but not until after the STN started. My NO3 skyrocketed to 75ppm and before I knew what was going on I was thinking the high Nitrates were causing the STN. I purchased the Bashsea Bio Reactor and started dosing Vodka and MB7 to try and get the NO3 down. After two months they were not budging.
I don't remember the timeline but I believe I stopped Carbon dosing before the Cipro. Two weeks after Cipro my NO3 started coming back down.
I remember reading from a Brazilian reefer that said Carbon dosing was causing a bunch of tanks in his area to STN. He thought it was fueling them as well. It makes sense. If you have a dominant bad bacteria/pathogen then you would think a Carbon source would make them spread like wildfire.
mellotang
Premium Member
Maybe certain carbon sources feed certain bacteria strains, or maybe some
Bacteria is better situated to consume the carbon source quicker than others resulting in one strain outcompeting the rest and becoming the dominant strain. In your case Oceanospirillaceae, but you also said you didn’t start carbon till the high NO3
I have not carbon dosed too
Much, although I did crash a full SPS tank with bio pellets when they first came out
Your situation was indeed unique, the skyrocket of NO3 with no real changes to the system is odd, maybe the bacteria overgrowth was nitrifying, instead of denitrifying…who knows
I had a system once that was heavily populated with bacteria, to a point where it was problematic. Skimmer constantly full n smelly, rocks looked fuzzy, sump was covered in a pinkish white bacteria layer, it almost looked like sponge, It stunk when i syphoned it out
I had a hard time getting that system stable
Too much of a good thing I guess
Bacteria is better situated to consume the carbon source quicker than others resulting in one strain outcompeting the rest and becoming the dominant strain. In your case Oceanospirillaceae, but you also said you didn’t start carbon till the high NO3
I have not carbon dosed too
Much, although I did crash a full SPS tank with bio pellets when they first came out
Your situation was indeed unique, the skyrocket of NO3 with no real changes to the system is odd, maybe the bacteria overgrowth was nitrifying, instead of denitrifying…who knows
I had a system once that was heavily populated with bacteria, to a point where it was problematic. Skimmer constantly full n smelly, rocks looked fuzzy, sump was covered in a pinkish white bacteria layer, it almost looked like sponge, It stunk when i syphoned it out
I had a hard time getting that system stable
Too much of a good thing I guess
I was going through some of my older messages from last year during my crash, trying to find some information to include here. The conversation is with an immunologist friend, and I thought it would be appropriate to include it here because I believe this is the cause of many of the recent STN and RTN episodes, particularly in dry rock systems.
This was before I sent off a sample to Aquabiomics and treated with Cipro.
My message
I'm sitting here contemplating. What if a pathogen or virus is circulating in the hobby? The hobby has never been more popular, with so many people fragging and sending their corals around.
What if a virus like herpes is circulating? Herpes can live in a host that does not show symptoms of the virus, but it can still spread to a new host that does.
What if people have a virus in their corals and are unaware of it because their system does not promote a suitable environment for it? The virus can thrive in the new system, so they pass on a frag to someone else, and the other system becomes infected.
His response
I agree 100% with your thoughts about "a pathogen or virus going around in the hobby". Except that I believe there are hundreds, if not thousands. Many pathogens, such as herpes, infect and then die in the host. Malaria, HIV, Salmonella, streptococci, and other pathogens are examples. When the host is stressed, the pathogen, like herpes, can emerge from dormancy. I believe STN and RTN episodes are related and caused by a variety of bugs, bacteria, fungi, and viruses. Yes, I believe we are all spreading diseases with our frags. That is why I will KCl dip before proceeding to QC with three Interceptor treatments followed by Cipro.
I believe the transparent HOTO bug I had is widespread. Farmerty feels the same way. They are difficult to see because they are transparent. Why did some very talented reefers lose their HOTOs all at once? I believe they were all infected with the same insidious bug that appears to prefer HOTOs and likely close relatives.
This was before I sent off a sample to Aquabiomics and treated with Cipro.
My message
I'm sitting here contemplating. What if a pathogen or virus is circulating in the hobby? The hobby has never been more popular, with so many people fragging and sending their corals around.
What if a virus like herpes is circulating? Herpes can live in a host that does not show symptoms of the virus, but it can still spread to a new host that does.
What if people have a virus in their corals and are unaware of it because their system does not promote a suitable environment for it? The virus can thrive in the new system, so they pass on a frag to someone else, and the other system becomes infected.
His response
I agree 100% with your thoughts about "a pathogen or virus going around in the hobby". Except that I believe there are hundreds, if not thousands. Many pathogens, such as herpes, infect and then die in the host. Malaria, HIV, Salmonella, streptococci, and other pathogens are examples. When the host is stressed, the pathogen, like herpes, can emerge from dormancy. I believe STN and RTN episodes are related and caused by a variety of bugs, bacteria, fungi, and viruses. Yes, I believe we are all spreading diseases with our frags. That is why I will KCl dip before proceeding to QC with three Interceptor treatments followed by Cipro.
I believe the transparent HOTO bug I had is widespread. Farmerty feels the same way. They are difficult to see because they are transparent. Why did some very talented reefers lose their HOTOs all at once? I believe they were all infected with the same insidious bug that appears to prefer HOTOs and likely close relatives.
That's what I believe as well. Not that necrosis is a virus but a bad bacteria/pathogen is dormant in the system. Once something happens that can trigger it then it takes over and can cause STN/RTN. This is all anecdotal of course.
Pengs Heart Of The Ocean acro
CALL IT A COMEBACK!
The end of this month will be a year since my crash from a bad bacteria/pathogen. It's been a long 5 months since setting the new tank up but the tank is finally making strides now. Color is back and getting daily growth on almost all pieces.
Bubble algae is now 50% gone. I added 50+ emeralds this week so that should help.
Busy weekend ahead of me. Going to remove the rest of the bubble algae and mount almost 30 frags including some gorgonians.
Took this video last night. I know the music is dramatic but it is how I feel about the tank right now. It's in Beast Mode!
The end of this month will be a year since my crash from a bad bacteria/pathogen. It's been a long 5 months since setting the new tank up but the tank is finally making strides now. Color is back and getting daily growth on almost all pieces.
Bubble algae is now 50% gone. I added 50+ emeralds this week so that should help.
Busy weekend ahead of me. Going to remove the rest of the bubble algae and mount almost 30 frags including some gorgonians.
Took this video last night. I know the music is dramatic but it is how I feel about the tank right now. It's in Beast Mode!
Nice
Looks great and in the beginning I was waiting to see the titanic with the music
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