Jebao Dosing pump for automatic water change?

[ReefsandGeeks]

I've been looking into setting up a pump that would allow me to do water changes from my basement fish room to the tank directly above on the 1st floor. In looking into this, it seems I'd be best off getting a MAG 18 or 24, but are fairly pricy even used and hard to find used locally.

i just found that the Jebao dosing pump is only like $45, or $70 depending on if you want 2 or 4 dosing heads. now I'm considering using this pump to do automatic daily water changes of about 1 gallon each instead of setting up a large MAG pump. I'd rather have automatic water changes anyways, and just refill my brute once a month.

Has anyone used the Jebao doser for daily water changes and have any input on it's effectiveness or any issues? Anyone use it for dosing from a basement to the first floor? I think the peristaltic pumps can get good head pressure, and also not be prone to back siphoning. Would it be worth getting the one with 4 heads vs 2 to decrease the load on each head?

 

[mcgyvr]

Its a time based unit..
Its not suitable for an AWC system that requires stop/start signals based on float switches,etc unless you also plan to incorporate solenoids into the system to stop/start the water flow accordingly..

You can buy the dosing pump heads on Ebay/Amazon for cheap though but would need to create a relay/power supply setup to turn them on accordingly (which you would need with a mag pump anyways)

 

[ReefsandGeeks]

Being time based, would it work just having the "fill" head used to transfer new water to the display to run for the same amount of time as the "drain" head used to pull existing tank water from the display and send to the drain? As long as both heads are calibrated, it should exchange an equal amount of water in vs water out I'd think with no need for float valves or any other external control.

 

[bosshog]

If calibrated properly the unit should keep the out/in levels pretty constant. I was using one to top off, it worked well, and kept things very steady in the system dosing 6l/day, but I do question the longevity of the pumps moving larger volumes. How much volume do you plan on changing in your AWC system? If running a nano tank, with small volumes of water change IMO it would be a very good solution, in a larger system it’s probably not a long term solution. That’s all my opinion, and we all know about opinions.

Personally I’d look elsewhere for a solution, but for $70 roll the dice and try it.

 

[ReefsandGeeks]

I have a 150 gallon tank and plan on doing about a gallon change a day. I figured a gallon shouldn't be too bad, and could even be split up thoughout the day to give the pumps a break. Changing out 300ml at a time 12 times a day or something like that. My main concerns would be either an imballance in the in vs out and the head height being too much for the pumps possibly. I'd have to measure to be sure, but would maybe be 13 ft of head? Raising the water up one floor (~8 feet) + the height of my tank (~5 feet). I could also do the change through the sump if necessary, adding the new water to the return pump area and pulling the waste change out water from the filter sock area so I'm not pulling out and wasiting the new water as it's dosed. Dosing would be done at the same time to not effect the ATO and change salinity.

 

[mcgyvr]

Being time based, would it work just having the "fill" head used to transfer new water to the display to run for the same amount of time as the "drain" head used to pull existing tank water from the display and send to the drain? As long as both heads are calibrated, it should exchange an equal amount of water in vs water out I'd think with no need for float valves or any other external control.

Thats your choice..
For me that alone is NOT suitable without extra protection added to the system..
Even when calibrated "stuff" can happen..
Guess what happens when you go away for 2 weeks on vacation and the drain head stops working..
Or when the fill head sticks on..

Now setup some failsafes like floatswitches/power shutoff relays and you will be better off..

 

[ReefsandGeeks]

So I've pulled a few strings, and got ahold of a couple of Masterflex peristalic pumps that I plan to use for the water changes. I intend on running two heads off of the same pump with the same size hose so it's always a matched flowrate for adding new and removing old water at the same time. At this point, I think I will just do the water change outs only when I am around to monitor the change out and see if the ATO is kicking on more, or if the sump is filling up just so I can be sure the water in is the same as the water out.

Would you guys feel comfortable running a water change out set up like this? These are industrial grade peristalic pumps and with both heads on the same pump should have very little chance of the flowrates being significantly different.

Possibly in the future I may set up the pump on a timer for automated water changes, but only if I've done so many change outs that I am very confident that there would be no issues.

Any thoughts?

https://www.coleparmer.com/i/master...r-drive-6-to-600-rpm-115-vac/0755900?pubid=EW

 

[mcgyvr]

Without water level sensors verifying I wouldn't trust any peristaltic pump to pump equally even with a dual head setup..
Guess what happens when one tubing starts to get worn/fail..

A float/sensor/relay setup could be added for less than $20

 

[reefgeezer]

Without water level sensors verifying I wouldn't trust any peristaltic pump to pump equally even with a dual head setup..
Guess what happens when one tubing starts to get worn/fail..

A float/sensor/relay setup could be added for less than $20

+1... I use food grade liquid level float switches and a solenoid for my ATO. Bulletproof.

 

[dkeller_nc]

So I've pulled a few strings, and got ahold of a couple of Masterflex peristalic pumps that I plan to use for the water changes. I intend on running two heads off of the same pump with the same size hose so it's always a matched flowrate for adding new and removing old water at the same time.

Any thoughts?

https://www.coleparmer.com/i/master...r-drive-6-to-600-rpm-115-vac/0755900?pubid=EW

I've used these pumps for many years in my line of work. I can assure you that just because you're rotating the heads at the same rate, and are using the same size tubing, you will not get exactly the same flow rate. Moreover, depending on the type of masterflex head you have, your tubing must be precisely the correct size to get a good seal to prevent back-siphoning. That generally means buying tubing from Cole Parmer, which isn't inexpensive.

The bottom line here is that IMHO, this is definitely not something to try to do "on the cheap", as it may well turn out to be incredibly expensive in lost animals and property damage. At the very least, I wouldn't even think about doing this without an Apex, and a properly programmed apex at that with salinity monitoring and optical level switches configured in such a way that you can no-ifs-ands-buts-or-maybes know that the system is working properly. That would, for example, include an optical switch on your waste container in the basement that has supervisory control over the system and will shut it off if it overfills and a positive-shutoff solenoid valve on the drain to ensure that leak-by on the drain pump cannot create a siphon that will drain your sump and burn up your pump.

It sounds like overkill, and perhaps it is, but I've been around enough to have seen a lot of disasters. This is an equivalent risk scenario to hooking an ATO to an endless-supply RODI system. The best advice is "don't do it - ever", but if someone's determined, don't do it without a tank controller and high-level sump switches.

 

[ReefsandGeeks]

I ended up getting the materflex pump set up with both heads and did a 40 gallon water change this past weekend. It did work very well, however as some of you have mentioned, it did not work perfectly. Over the course of the 40 gallon water change (about 4 hours time) my system lost about a gallon of water, or about 2.5% error between the fill and drain lines. I did have my ATO unplugged, and over 4 hours probably did have some evaperation, so the difference caused by the peristalic pump probably was a bit better than 2.5%, but still not able to be trusted to run automatically.

I think at this point I will change around where my drain hose is located in the sump, so in case it is running and the system fill line stops working for some reason, or a large imbalance, it will not drain out the sump beyond a safe level. As far as the fill line, I'd like to get a float switch with a relay and set it up to shut off the peristaltic pump if the sump water level gets too high. I think with these two changes, I would be reasonably safe to use the system. For now, It will only be continued to be used under close supervision as I still think it's better than manual changes. I still get a gradual water change vs all at once as I would with a manual change. And don't have to manually drain and carry 6-8 buckets of water up and down the steps, of which I always end up making a mess. Even with the new safety devices in place, I still plan to monitor the tank during changes and only do them when I am around to watch, vs having them happen automatically every day/week etc. Perhaps one day I will have it set up to be safe to run automatically, but would need an apex to feel 100% safe and don't have that plus a DOS in my hobby budget right now.

 

[dkeller_nc]

Yeah, a semi-manual system would be a reasonable compromise between taking the risk with an automated system (even with an Apex and a DOS) and doing it manually.

Having said that, I still use buckets, even though I've got 3 Apex controllers, DOS pumps and assorted safeties. But I also have relatively small tanks, so I carry 6 5 gallon buckets at most on water change day - 3 buckets of waste water, 3 buckets of new saltwater.

It's definitely more work, but it's nearly risk free, and there's nearly nothing to go wrong that will cause a tank crash or a flooded house.

 

[ReefsandGeeks]

3 buckets in and 3 buckets out isn't too bad. My normal 8 bucket water change (16 total buckets) only ends up being about a 20-25% water change on my 150 gallon system, depending on just how full I fill the buckets. While this method is fairly full proof, there is always some splashing and spilling that happens, at least for me. And I have once dropped a bucket of saltwater on my steps. 5 gallons of water doesn't seem like a whole lot until you see it pouring down a staircase. Luckily no real damage to the relatively cheap basement steps. Just alot of clean up effort and cleaning off everything below that got wet. Seems like it could happen again, so i want to do what I can to avoid carying buckets up the stairs. When I'm carrying them up, I have to be careful to not let my arm stretch too far or the bottom of the bucket will hit the step as I go up and will slosh the bucket around. Usually just a half cup or so spills. but the one time it twisted my wrist and the bucket slipped.

I have done the bucket method for a good 5 years now. I always planned on having a basement sump for easier water changes and maintenance, but the cost of buying and running a pump capable of the head pressure swayed me away from that, at least for the time being. I think this method is actually better as far as water changes alone are concerned because the change is gradual over a few hours rather than all at once. No need to worry about the water temperature which is nice. I don't have to run a heater on my new saltwater. I set the water change out flowrate to a level that my tank heater can keep up with the new colder water and have no change in tank temp during the change.

Although I've only done 1 water change with my peristaltic pumps so far, I'm pretty happy with the results and is alot less effort. Plus no spilled water (with monitoring of course) and no fish tank smell after draining out water, which my wife sure does appreciate. I think the new system will at least encourage me to perform water changes as often as I should instead of my more typical average of just 10-15% change a month.

 

[sde1500]

I use a stenner dual head. Sadly does not do it as accurately as I'd like. Recently started mixing up my NSW at a higher salinity since more is removed than added. So far so good it keeps a more accurate salinity that way. Quick frequent salinity checks and adjustments via top off or NSW salinity levels is, for me, still far easier than manual water changes.

 

[Kevin Guthrie]

To equalize flow, try to get the same head pressure on both the new/in and old/out lines. Might involve raising or lowering the pump and/or new water reservoir.

 

[tkeracer619]

When using a masterflex or other high end peristaltic you need at least one head to have adjustable occlusion. I use this setup and it does work perfectly if setup properly. Pump heads that use precision tubing sets are standard wall thickness tubing you can get from US Plastics. You want Pharmed BPT tubing with a 1/16" wall. Performance tubing sets are proprietary from Cole Parmer.

If you don't have at least one adjustable occlusion head then you can balance them by extending the length of the tubing run of the head that pumps more, this increases back pressure... It isn't the greatest solution but it works until you get a proper head.

Also, NEVER run any AWC system without a conductivity probe. Everything will break at some point.

 

[tkeracer619]

Also, to answer the original post... No way, they are in no shape or form adequate for an AWC system.