jenjen's upgrade to 180gal

[jenjen]

I'd like to start by saying a big THANK YOU to all of you who've helped me to get as far in this challenging hobby as I am today. Everyone on this site has been extremely kind and helpful, and the timely advice is so appreciated. I find I haven't had to ask too many questions, because most of them have been asked many times before and diligent searching seems to dig up most answers.

That said, I'm starting up a new tank and thought I'd take a go at a log thread this time round, if for no other reason but to track my own progress. I'll get some pics in here SOON (I lost my camera recently thanks to an airline mishap ), but in the meantime here's some background.

I currently have a 90gal, which will reach it's 1yr anniversary this month. I bought the tank on a whim last April, with some encouragement from my boyfriend - though I have to say it didn't take much convincing. Once I got the tank home I started doing some research (I'd never done saltwater before), and thankfully found this site. The tank cycled in about 4 weeks, I added inverts, fish & corals and other than a round of ich (which taught me how/why to QT) everything has gone fairly smoothly.

I've been eyeing a 180gal at a local FS since last fall. Finally at the end of October my boyfriend (of 7 yrs) convinced me to get it, but when I got to the store I couldn't do it. When we got home I explained to him that I just couldn't justify spending that kind of $$ on a new tank when our 'excuse' for not getting married was that we didn't have the money to spend on a wedding. Ya ya, it wasn't an ultimatum HONEST, it was just the truth.

Well, who knew that he already had the ring at home - he proposed a week later, by placing the ring in my current tank and then patiently waiting for me to find it.

Of course then I started with the 'Dang, if you already had the ring WHY can't I get the tank now?' (woman logic as he says). So it's taken me a few months, but he finally came around and realized that of course I should still get the tank. So here we are.

The 90gal is still running, and houses 6 fish, lots of inverts, a clam, LPS & softies. There's a 40gal sump/fuge, and about 100lbs of live rock. We'll keep the 90gal up for as long as it takes to get everyone safely transferred over to the new tank.

The 180gal has about 100lbs of aroganite (sp?) sand and a couple scoops of live sand from the 90gal. It has 100lbs of base rock and a couple of pieces of live rock from the fuge in the 90. It's just over 1/2 full with water, and is currently 1.024sg and 78degrees. It will get the sump from the old tank which will be turned into just a sump, and an added 30gal fuge. And we're upgrading some of the equipment.

I did have pics of the whole process up to now on my camera (sigh) but will start taking new pics once I get a new camera this weekend. In the meantime (just incase anyone is still reading!) I have a few questions concerning how/when to start moving livestock, which I'll post in a little bit.

For those of you still reading - thanks!

 

[jenjen]

Ok, time for question number one.

At what stage can/should I start moving rock from the 90 to the 180? I know I need the live rock in the new tank to seed the base rock, but I'm worried about tearing apart the current tank because it'll mess up everyone's home & territory. There's maybe 3 or 4 small rocks I can remove from the display without upsetting things too much, but after that it starts affecting everyone's favorite sleeping spots.

My 3 larger fish (each around 4 or 5 inches) are a Yellow Tang, Kole Tang, and Foxface. They are each quite territorial, so I'm trying to figure out how best to not upset them since it'll be a while yet before I can move even one of them into the new tank.

 

[davewbush]

IMO get the new tank water at the same sal. as your 90. Find a whole day and do the move all at once. Hook up your sump and fuge first. If you plan on using the sand from your 90, place rocks and live stock in buckets and lay the sand down first. Add your live rock next. Add what ever water from the 90 you can at this time. Then add corals and fish.

Its the same as doing a 50% water change on a 180 gal tank. Use as much of the water from the 90. Most of the filtering bacteria will be on your live rock. If your water paramiters are good in both tanks, I don't think this should be a problem. It will take all day.

If I'm wrong and way off, I hope some one else will post a better way to do this.

 

[jenjen]

I'm not using any sand from the 90, and have gone with 100% 'not live' new sand. Also, while I'll be using all the rock from the 90, it only amounts to 1/2 the rock which will end up in the 180 - the rest is shiny white base rock.

If I move it all in one day, will the 180 be able to handle the bio-load? I had guessed not and was planning to do a gradual move, but a full day effort would be easier if it'll work.

 

[davewbush]

The tank size is going up, but not the bio-load. The new base rock, if is it cured, is not putting any thing bad in the water. There is no die off. I think it could be done.

 

[PRDubois]

+1 Davebush is correct.

I went from a 20gal to a 72gal in one day.

If the baserock was dry rock with no dieoff you will be fine.

1. Make sure you have a entire day.
2. Make sure you have extra 5 gal buckets and/or rubbermaid containers
3. Make sure Temp., Salinity, and PH are the same in Both tanks and any additional water you have mixed.
4. Move Live rock from 90 to new tank
5. Move Sump to new tank
6. Move any Corals to the new tank
7. Move 1/2 water from 90 to new tank
8. Move Cleanup crew and fish to new tank.
9. Look thru sand in 90 for any Cleanup crew that might be in the sand.
10. Move rest of water from 90 to new tank
11. kick back and Enjoy

 

[jenjen]

Alright, well it looks like this may end up being Sunday's fun then - thanks davewbush & PRDubois!

So my next steps will be to finish filling the 180 & getting the sump moved over & set up. Hopefully I'll be able to pick up a camera before I move anything so I can get some before & after shots.

 

[Fizz71]

I mostly agree with what was posted before but I want to give you one BIG warning. Once you start moving rock BOTH tanks will probably become sand storms from hell.

I would personally siphon off water to rubbermaid tubs while it's untouched and remove everybody you can BEFORE you start yanking rocks out, especially ones touching the sand.

I would move the fish to tubs FIRST if I could, because they will be seriously stressed once you start ripping things out. If they hide, then get them when you can. Keep track of who you've caught.

Then I would move the rocks above the sand with corals attached (and unattached corals) into a tub.

Then go after everything living that you can find and put it in the tubs.

Then start to move the rock over. Understand that you will probably spend a few hours aquascaping until you're happy.

Then let the inevitable sand storm in the new tank start to settle as you acclimate your fish to the new system, and go back to the old tank for cleanup stragglers.

I've moved more times than I'd like to admit and that's bascially what you're doing...just upgrading as you do a short move.

I've also merged two tanks to one bigger one and what I described above is what I did. The only mistake I made was putting an anemone in a tub with some of the fish...he stressed and killed just about everybody in his tub, but I saved a few and all the other tubs had no issues. BTW..I was merging 2 understocked 75s into one, but the one I was mergning them into was from another house, so everything had to be tubbed to get the old tank out.

Keep an eye on temp too..the tubs should be heated and maybe even a small powerhead to keep water rippling the surface for air exchange if they're going to be in the tub for more than an hour. I took about 2 or 3 hours to do mine with no heat or pumps, but it was warm in the room and I had a LOT of extra water in the tubs and I did a normal acclimation into the new tank as if I just brought the fish home.

 

[davewbush]

I too have moved my tanks more than I ever wanted to. Fizz is right, there will be a sand storm and its hard to aquascape when you can't see what your doing. I tubed all my livestock durining the moves. To keep the sand storm down in the 180 you can get another tub going and all the rock you pull out of the 90 put in the tub and give it a shake, then move it to the 180. This will help get any sand and build up off the rocks.

 

[PRDubois]

Just remenber you want 50 to 60% of water in new tank to be from established water.

You can do a 30% waterchange today in the 90 and put the water you take out in the new tank.

Pour water slowly to avoid the sand storm. Disturb the sand as little as possible

 

[chris4869]

Off topic but, congratulation on your proposal.

 

[jenjen]

Thanks for all the ideas - we'll definitely incorporate them all into 'the big move'. My daughter is away for the weekend so it's a perfect weekend for it, as I suspect there will be at least a few 'adult words'. I warned my fiance that he has till Sunday morning to get all the plumbing & electrical done, so he's on deck for Saturday to finish that up.

I think his biggest concern is drilling the fuge so it can overflow into the sump, but we have 3 tanks available so hopefully he can make it work with 3 tries.

I'm going to go tonight and get some extra tubs to keep everyone as separate as I can. My three big fish don't really get along too well as it is, so I can't imagine they'll be happy to spend a day in a rubbermaid together. And the extra tub to rinse off each rock before it goes into the new tank is an excellent idea.

Thanks again for all the help!

 

[jenjen]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14832182#post14832182 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chris4869
Off topic but, congratulation on your proposal.

THANK YOU!!!

 

[jenjen]

The new light is finally installed on the tank. We've added a 400W MH to the center, and will move the two 250W's from the 90gal once all the corals are out.

Most of the plumbing is being done this evening. The fuge will be drilled & plumbed in tomorrow night, and the big move will happen on Saturday. We plan to spend the whole day on it, and our daughter is out for the night so we shouldn't get interrupted.

I have 3 large rubbermaid containers for the rocks & corals, plus a rinsing container. I'm hoping to move all the rock out & into the bins fairly quickly, so I can leave the fish in the 90gal until the aquascape is done & the corals are moved. Then I'll drain the 90gal and move the fish. I do have a backup bin, incase I decide to get the fish out sooner.

Since I'm moving the sump from the old tank to the new one & I have to remove the center brace on the old stand to get the sump out, I'm going to move that once the 90 is empty. I'll have all the plumbing done & tested, so it should be all ready to go.

Hopefully we're not missing anything - feeling pretty nervous, with all this livestock at stake. The 180 is looking good though... I'm anxious to get it filled!

 

[jenjen]

Once we get everything moved over, I'd like to use the 90gal as a QT for a few new fish. Is there an issue with leaving the sand in the 90gal & refilling the water with fresh & using it for a QT? I could likely spare a little rock as well.

We're planning to add a PBT for sure, and a few other smaller fish. I'd also like to add an anemone, but still trying to research whether I should wait a bit until the new tank is established before adding one - comments on this would be appreciated.

 

[PRDubois]

QT tank does not need sand or rock, but it is OF as long as it is not used to treat. (like Copper)
Also if a fish has ick you dont want the sand in the tank.

 

[davewbush]

I would hold off a little on the anemone to make sure every thing in the tank is good. With every thing going in already established you should be ok, but anemones are very sensative and you don't want it die if some thing does spike.

 

[jenjen]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14842090#post14842090 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PRDubois
QT tank does not need sand or rock, but it is OF as long as it is not used to treat. (like Copper)
Also if a fish has ick you dont want the sand in the tank.

The sand is going in the garbage once the tank is taken down anyway, so I'm just being lazy and hoping to avoid removing it before I QT in it. I do have another tank that I usually use for QT but it's only a 20gal so I was thinking since I have the 90 set up anyway maybe I'd spoil the new fish and give them a larger QT.

Is there any reason I can't leave the sand in if I use the 90 for QT? If I'm going to go to the trouble of removing the sand I'll probably just stick with the 20 for QT, since getting the sand out with the tank still on the stand sounds like a terrible task.

 

[jenjen]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14842125#post14842125 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by davewbush
I would hold off a little on the anemone to make sure every thing in the tank is good. With every thing going in already established you should be ok, but anemones are very sensative and you don't want it die if some thing does spike.

I was hoping to put an anemone in before adding too many more corals, mainly to give it some space to wander without killing anything. How long do you mean by 'hold off a little'?

 

[jenjen]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14842147#post14842147 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jenjen
The sand is going in the garbage once the tank is taken down anyway, so I'm just being lazy and hoping to avoid removing it before I QT in it. I do have another tank that I usually use for QT but it's only a 20gal so I was thinking since I have the 90 set up anyway maybe I'd spoil the new fish and give them a larger QT.

Is there any reason I can't leave the sand in if I use the 90 for QT? If I'm going to go to the trouble of removing the sand I'll probably just stick with the 20 for QT, since getting the sand out with the tank still on the stand sounds like a terrible task.

Also, if I have to treat anyone I'll move them to the 20gal hospital tank... don't want to add copper to the 90gal & then sell it to some poor un-suspecting folks!