Joint OKAA and COMAS Meeting
- Thread starter herpchat
- Start date
Not to be a party pooper, but this entire discussion is beginning to annoy me. See the following remarks copied -
"I wanted to interject to let folks know that something is in the works. I don't want to toss out too many details before we have things really planned out."
If something is really in the works, why not just come out and say it, for pete's sake? Here we've had a 2 page discussion that the clubs apparently want this get together. I know we've had a thread going since last year regarding this. Why all the secrecy?
Now PaulW, I'm going to pick on you.
"As Paul T said, yes we have been discussing this. I mentioned that earlier. When george became President of OMAS he and I discussed this. When it happens it will be a great event. However it takes an enormous effort to organize a large meeting. Even small ones inside the club take more time and effort than you can imagine."
Paul, there are 90+ members in COMAS alone. Most are active to a degree in the club. I've had numerous people approach me, wondering what they could do to better the club. Again, if a meeting such as this is in the works, why the secrecy? There have already been a number of people offer their help in any way they can. Something like this can't be put on with the officers alone. Remarks like PaulT made about not divulging details until all the plans are made make people feel like they are not necessary, nor included. A meeting of this magnitude can't be pulled off without an entire clubs support.
"Speakers need to be decided upon. These need to be more than club members..if not..why would anyone come. I ask all the time for people to do presentations inside our meetings....who so far has done one? If anyone would like to, please let me know."
I, personally, do take offense at that remark. I, personally, have given a guest presentation at an OKAA meeting. I, personally, completed a questionnaire about seahorses to help complete a college thesis and I, personally have spoken, about seahorses, to our club - twice. I have also just offered in the above thread to do it again, if asked. To say why would anyone come if local yokels are the only ones speaking is ridiculous. No one from OMAS or SOMAS has heard me speak, just as I have never heard anyone from their clubs speak. As Travis stated, I also keep FW tanks and would love to hear how some local breeders raise angelfish, per say. Knowing how things are done locally, by people who live in the same state, are much more interesting to me than having some yahoo getting big bucks preach at me. If you wanna hear the yahoo's go to MACNA, and pay the big price to get in. I think we need to keep this first meeting at least, as relatively inexpensive as possible.
"The venue needs to be booked and paid for. If a speaker is booked flights need to be organized and paid for as do hotel rooms. Someone has to do that. Thats the easy part (apart from finding the money)."
UMM - as I stated before, we are a club with 90+ members, each of whom has paid 25.00 to be a member. We are not the only club. We are talking about 3 other clubs, and altho they may not be as big, I'm sure they have some cash flow. Also, as Gary has stated, at least twice in this thread, the vendors and LFS would pay for the privilege to be a part of this meeting. Yes, I understand this is going to be an expensive venture, but I don't see where it has to be so expensive as to be a club funds depleter.
"We then get to deciding topics and themes. Then obtaining sponsorships. To give you an idea, I send 500 plus emails every year to get sponsorships for the club meet iwe have in January. It takes an enormous effort. This would probably be more involved than that and would involve working out advertising and displays etc."
Again, look towards the membership. Number one, I've been a member of this club for several years. No one has ever asked me to send e-mails, find sponsors or donors. This is the first I've heard of over 500 e-mails being sent by a single person for a single meeting. Why didn't you ask for help? Obviously, we ALL have computers, and access. We all also have things we are good at and enjoy doing. We also all have different ideas.
"As for people coming? who from here went to the Dallas meeting? or the One in Arkansas."
Maybe we all have a little different idea of what we want to get out of this meeting. It sounds like the powers that be want this little Oklahoma thing to rival MACNA, where people come from all over the world to hear the same people talk about the same things. Me, I'd be happy just to get to meet some fellow, local club members with a like interest as I, and promote our hobby among newbies who would like to get started, but don't know how.
OK, I'm climbing down now before I get a nosebleed, but does anyone else feel the same way I do? Granted, I'm not an officer (this year) but as a club member, maybe we should talk about things relative to the club at meetings, rather than just saying there is no new business, oh, and the beer is over there - help yourself. This thread is not coming so far after the last meeting that ideas couldn't have been tossed around regarding this meeting, or at least, letting the club know a meeting such as this was being considered.
Again, I offer myself in whatever capacity would be most helpful. I think this meeting could be one of the most awesome things to happen to all of the clubs. I will, if anyone wants to hear it, give a talk about seahorses, octopuses, simple reef tanks and/or caulerpa. Those are about the only things I feel qualified to discuss. I am also here for sending e-mails, contacting vendors, obtaining donations, making plans, bouncing ideas off of, or anything else that is needed, but unfortunately, I'm not psychic and will have to be told how I can help the most.
"I wanted to interject to let folks know that something is in the works. I don't want to toss out too many details before we have things really planned out."
If something is really in the works, why not just come out and say it, for pete's sake? Here we've had a 2 page discussion that the clubs apparently want this get together. I know we've had a thread going since last year regarding this. Why all the secrecy?
Now PaulW, I'm going to pick on you.
"As Paul T said, yes we have been discussing this. I mentioned that earlier. When george became President of OMAS he and I discussed this. When it happens it will be a great event. However it takes an enormous effort to organize a large meeting. Even small ones inside the club take more time and effort than you can imagine."
Paul, there are 90+ members in COMAS alone. Most are active to a degree in the club. I've had numerous people approach me, wondering what they could do to better the club. Again, if a meeting such as this is in the works, why the secrecy? There have already been a number of people offer their help in any way they can. Something like this can't be put on with the officers alone. Remarks like PaulT made about not divulging details until all the plans are made make people feel like they are not necessary, nor included. A meeting of this magnitude can't be pulled off without an entire clubs support.
"Speakers need to be decided upon. These need to be more than club members..if not..why would anyone come. I ask all the time for people to do presentations inside our meetings....who so far has done one? If anyone would like to, please let me know."
I, personally, do take offense at that remark. I, personally, have given a guest presentation at an OKAA meeting. I, personally, completed a questionnaire about seahorses to help complete a college thesis and I, personally have spoken, about seahorses, to our club - twice. I have also just offered in the above thread to do it again, if asked. To say why would anyone come if local yokels are the only ones speaking is ridiculous. No one from OMAS or SOMAS has heard me speak, just as I have never heard anyone from their clubs speak. As Travis stated, I also keep FW tanks and would love to hear how some local breeders raise angelfish, per say. Knowing how things are done locally, by people who live in the same state, are much more interesting to me than having some yahoo getting big bucks preach at me. If you wanna hear the yahoo's go to MACNA, and pay the big price to get in. I think we need to keep this first meeting at least, as relatively inexpensive as possible.
"The venue needs to be booked and paid for. If a speaker is booked flights need to be organized and paid for as do hotel rooms. Someone has to do that. Thats the easy part (apart from finding the money)."
UMM - as I stated before, we are a club with 90+ members, each of whom has paid 25.00 to be a member. We are not the only club. We are talking about 3 other clubs, and altho they may not be as big, I'm sure they have some cash flow. Also, as Gary has stated, at least twice in this thread, the vendors and LFS would pay for the privilege to be a part of this meeting. Yes, I understand this is going to be an expensive venture, but I don't see where it has to be so expensive as to be a club funds depleter.
"We then get to deciding topics and themes. Then obtaining sponsorships. To give you an idea, I send 500 plus emails every year to get sponsorships for the club meet iwe have in January. It takes an enormous effort. This would probably be more involved than that and would involve working out advertising and displays etc."
Again, look towards the membership. Number one, I've been a member of this club for several years. No one has ever asked me to send e-mails, find sponsors or donors. This is the first I've heard of over 500 e-mails being sent by a single person for a single meeting. Why didn't you ask for help? Obviously, we ALL have computers, and access. We all also have things we are good at and enjoy doing. We also all have different ideas.
"As for people coming? who from here went to the Dallas meeting? or the One in Arkansas."
Maybe we all have a little different idea of what we want to get out of this meeting. It sounds like the powers that be want this little Oklahoma thing to rival MACNA, where people come from all over the world to hear the same people talk about the same things. Me, I'd be happy just to get to meet some fellow, local club members with a like interest as I, and promote our hobby among newbies who would like to get started, but don't know how.
OK, I'm climbing down now before I get a nosebleed, but does anyone else feel the same way I do? Granted, I'm not an officer (this year) but as a club member, maybe we should talk about things relative to the club at meetings, rather than just saying there is no new business, oh, and the beer is over there - help yourself. This thread is not coming so far after the last meeting that ideas couldn't have been tossed around regarding this meeting, or at least, letting the club know a meeting such as this was being considered.
Again, I offer myself in whatever capacity would be most helpful. I think this meeting could be one of the most awesome things to happen to all of the clubs. I will, if anyone wants to hear it, give a talk about seahorses, octopuses, simple reef tanks and/or caulerpa. Those are about the only things I feel qualified to discuss. I am also here for sending e-mails, contacting vendors, obtaining donations, making plans, bouncing ideas off of, or anything else that is needed, but unfortunately, I'm not psychic and will have to be told how I can help the most.
Travis L. Stevens
New member
I see what you are saying. I was in an aunry mood typing this, so if anything seems offensive, I mean it in the best way with all the polite sarcasm possible 
What? Don't like surprises? Really, because it takes up so much discussion just from the officers of the clubs alone, the interjections, while valuable, of members might either throw the conversation a different direction or force ten pages to be typed just to get one point across. As well as you, I would love to be involved in this, but I know I have to sit back and let them work it out in peace.
As much as I would like to see some really mind boggling stuff roll through our organization, I have to admit that we are leaps and bounds ahead of any other organization that I've been to. And that doesn't include just marine aquarium societies. COMAS is lucky to have such an active membership base. Here is just one example. Luckily, OMAS is starting to really blossom lately, but we have a minimal turnout of total members to an actual meeting which makes it difficult to plan and have a decent discussion. If we have a two part discussion, we rarely have the same people for both parts.
We each have our place and time. I think at the moment the most important thing is for them to discuss the nitty gritty and then come to us for flamboyant details. After all, it's a lot easier to set a date that doesn't conflict with four organizations than it is to organize a date between ~300 members. It's a sacrifice that we have to make as a group of organizations. Not everyone will be able to attend whether it is financial or time constraint
What? Don't like surprises?
Really, because it takes up so much discussion just from the officers of the clubs alone, the interjections, while valuable, of members might either throw the conversation a different direction or force ten pages to be typed just to get one point across. As well as you, I would love to be involved in this, but I know I have to sit back and let them work it out in peace.As much as I would like to see some really mind boggling stuff roll through our organization, I have to admit that we are leaps and bounds ahead of any other organization that I've been to. And that doesn't include just marine aquarium societies. COMAS is lucky to have such an active membership base. Here is just one example. Luckily, OMAS is starting to really blossom lately, but we have a minimal turnout of total members to an actual meeting which makes it difficult to plan and have a decent discussion. If we have a two part discussion, we rarely have the same people for both parts.
We each have our place and time. I think at the moment the most important thing is for them to discuss the nitty gritty and then come to us for flamboyant details. After all, it's a lot easier to set a date that doesn't conflict with four organizations than it is to organize a date between ~300 members. It's a sacrifice that we have to make as a group of organizations. Not everyone will be able to attend whether it is financial or time constraint
I, personally, do take offense at that remark. I, personally, have given a guest presentation at an OKAA meeting. I, personally, completed a questionnaire about seahorses to help complete a college thesis and I, personally have spoken, about seahorses, to our club - twice. I have also just offered in the above thread to do it again, if asked. To say why would anyone come if local yokels are the only ones speaking is ridiculous. No one from OMAS or SOMAS has heard me speak, just as I have never heard anyone from their clubs speak. As Travis stated, I also keep FW tanks and would love to hear how some local breeders raise angelfish, per say. Knowing how things are done locally, by people who live in the same state, are much more interesting to me than having some yahoo getting big bucks preach at me. If you wanna hear the yahoo's go to MACNA, and pay the big price to get in. I think we need to keep this first meeting at least, as relatively inexpensive as possible.I'm going to have to completely agree here. I know I keep saying that I have this presentation and that presentation all in the making, but I promise I really do. It's been a little difficult to juggle them being Frag Director for two clubs as well as being in the middle of writing a few articles. But, if we at least found out a deadline, it might motivate me a little moreI, personally, would love to hear from many local speakers. But, I wouldn't mind seeing one speaker from abroad, though if we didn't have one, I wouldn't fret. Like I stated before, we are all going to be so busy getting used to the first statewide meeting, meeting new people, seeing new vendors, and even introductions from the clubs, that tacking on a bunch of speakers would be too much for my feeble mind. I think I can handle one speaker (especially if I can video tape it).
I could see where there is a little problem. Club funding is being invested in various areas from different clubs, I'm sure. I'm wondering if an invitation was sent out that people interested in going can send a slip back to reserve a space as well as an amount of money. Sure, it's going to be a trust issue but hey. It's worth it if we can book a space without risking funds.
I can see where it Paul might feel an obligation to do this and not think of asking for help. I can also see it from the vendor's perspective seeing that the president of an organization is taking the time to do this and not just a member. Really, 10 emails or 500 emails this is a split issue. Paul, we, the members, are here to eagerly help you if you need it, but it might be wise if you were still the one that did it.
I feel the same way, but I won't turn my nose up if anyone out of state or international shows up
Actually, I think a meeting like last time was almost overdue. It may not have been ideal for education (though the air bubbles = shotgun blast to jellyfish was cool), but it was nice to have a relaxed meeting to where a lot of mingling was involved. After all, an occassional meeting to strengthen friendships and greet new members is just as important as the meetings that strengthen our minds and broadens our knowledge.
I agree. I feel the same. I would love to offer something to the statewide meeting whether it is in front of a crowd or behind the scenes.
I don't necessarily agree. It depends on how the room is set up. Personally, I hate being squished in a tiny room with a bunch of people making it all hot and steamy (no offense, Gary
----
After all that has been said, I would still love to be an active part in the planning process when the time allows me to be involved. I'm a little worried that this first meeting might be a little overcomplicated. Though you are in contact with George, I also offer myself to be a liason between COMAS and OMAS in case you need a physical presence to go between the groups.
captbunzo
Premium Member
April-
You ask some valid questions and I will try to answer them with equal validity.
1. Why all the secrecy? Public vs. Private planning...
Planning any large event in an organization such as COMAS is complicated. And when those planning are unsure exactly how things will play out, it is often wise to be quiet until you are sure. In fact, had we kept the secrecy going, this whole mess of objections may have never been an issue as I think the club in general will be very pleased with the event, when all is worked out.
If you have every tried to organize something for a group and made the mistake of asking for opinions, votes, etc, you will quickly realize the overwelming chaos that follows. If the planning of this was approached in this manner, the event would have likely never happened.
2. People approaching April
Who, might I ask? When, might I ask? And most importantly, I am assuming you pointed them toward Paul, right?
3. Meeting needing club support to work
I think this statement is absolutely correct. And do you really think that we would ever try to put something together like this without getting help from folks in the club? Of course not.
Before we ASK for help, we have to know what to ask for. We have to get the event fleshed out more and actually identify various roles, etc, that need to be filled.
4. Taking offense - yahoos?
I, for one, take great offense at your labelling of people as yahoos. Several of the aforementioned yahoos are good friends of mine. They put more into this hobby in a year through the giving of themselves in forums, emails, etc, then either of us would likely accomplish in a lifetime. I mean, these are the folks that pioneer the ideas that we then adopt to make our tanks operate more successfully. Countless hours spent answering questions in forums, etc.
5. Meeting depleting club funds
Ok. So Paul has very carefully managed COMAS for years now, including the limited resources our club has availbale. Do you REALLY think that he would allow such a meetings to "deplete our funds" to any harmful manner? He is much smarter then that, even if he doesn't always look it.
6. Different meeting types - rival MACNA
And that last point transitions well into this one.
Your description of us wanting this to "rival MACNA" couldn't be more ludicrous. MACNA is a multi-national conference with thousands of attendees and dozens of speakers. It goes on for 2-3-4 days or so.
We are planning a meeting that would last ONE day, be targeted at marine aquarists across ONE state, and would bring in ONE out-of-town (expert) speaker.
Even Next Wave (1-day annual mini-conference put on by DFWMAS) was more costly, with its 4 out of town speakers flown in. Now, it was a great day of reef-learning.
The point is that we are aiming very carefully for a first go at such a thing.
7. Why doesn't Paul ask for help? Him and his 500 emails...
First of all, Paul asks for help all the time. Occasionally, people respond. Secondly, some tasks are not something that can be handed out so well. As I would comment to my computer geek friends, not everything scales linearly.
8. Final remarks...
April - I would challenge you to examine the way you came across above. I believe you posted while somewhat angry about the situation. You were very confrontational and somewhat insulting. You also are sounding very unappreciative of Dr. Whitby. He puts an astonishing amount of effort into this club, much of which is behind the scenes stuff that is never scene by the public and membership as a whole.
Anyhow, just my thoughts, my opinions, etc. I apologize if I have been offensive in any way - that was not my intention. Rather, I am just looking to clear the water a bit.
You ask some valid questions and I will try to answer them with equal validity.
1. Why all the secrecy? Public vs. Private planning...
Planning any large event in an organization such as COMAS is complicated. And when those planning are unsure exactly how things will play out, it is often wise to be quiet until you are sure. In fact, had we kept the secrecy going, this whole mess of objections may have never been an issue as I think the club in general will be very pleased with the event, when all is worked out.
If you have every tried to organize something for a group and made the mistake of asking for opinions, votes, etc, you will quickly realize the overwelming chaos that follows. If the planning of this was approached in this manner, the event would have likely never happened.
2. People approaching April
Who, might I ask? When, might I ask? And most importantly, I am assuming you pointed them toward Paul, right?
3. Meeting needing club support to work
I think this statement is absolutely correct. And do you really think that we would ever try to put something together like this without getting help from folks in the club? Of course not.
Before we ASK for help, we have to know what to ask for. We have to get the event fleshed out more and actually identify various roles, etc, that need to be filled.
4. Taking offense - yahoos?
I, for one, take great offense at your labelling of people as yahoos. Several of the aforementioned yahoos are good friends of mine. They put more into this hobby in a year through the giving of themselves in forums, emails, etc, then either of us would likely accomplish in a lifetime. I mean, these are the folks that pioneer the ideas that we then adopt to make our tanks operate more successfully. Countless hours spent answering questions in forums, etc.
5. Meeting depleting club funds
Ok. So Paul has very carefully managed COMAS for years now, including the limited resources our club has availbale. Do you REALLY think that he would allow such a meetings to "deplete our funds" to any harmful manner? He is much smarter then that, even if he doesn't always look it.
6. Different meeting types - rival MACNA
And that last point transitions well into this one.
Your description of us wanting this to "rival MACNA" couldn't be more ludicrous. MACNA is a multi-national conference with thousands of attendees and dozens of speakers. It goes on for 2-3-4 days or so.
We are planning a meeting that would last ONE day, be targeted at marine aquarists across ONE state, and would bring in ONE out-of-town (expert) speaker.
Even Next Wave (1-day annual mini-conference put on by DFWMAS) was more costly, with its 4 out of town speakers flown in. Now, it was a great day of reef-learning.
The point is that we are aiming very carefully for a first go at such a thing.
7. Why doesn't Paul ask for help? Him and his 500 emails...
First of all, Paul asks for help all the time. Occasionally, people respond. Secondly, some tasks are not something that can be handed out so well. As I would comment to my computer geek friends, not everything scales linearly.
8. Final remarks...
April - I would challenge you to examine the way you came across above. I believe you posted while somewhat angry about the situation. You were very confrontational and somewhat insulting. You also are sounding very unappreciative of Dr. Whitby. He puts an astonishing amount of effort into this club, much of which is behind the scenes stuff that is never scene by the public and membership as a whole.
Anyhow, just my thoughts, my opinions, etc. I apologize if I have been offensive in any way - that was not my intention. Rather, I am just looking to clear the water a bit.
Travis L. Stevens
New member
1. Why all the secrecy? Public vs. Private planning...
You bring up a good and relatively obvious point about the chaos that come from bulk opinions. But I have to say that, yes, I have planned large (in my opinion) meetings. I found the hardest part was actually finding a site to hold it at. Afterall, we have the hardest part accomplished; we all like the same thing. If people are willing to go, they are willing and eager to hear from just about anyone famous or not as long as the whole meeting is about what we are interested in a group; aquariums.
2. People approaching April
I'm curious as well, but a little off topic.
3. Meeting needing club support to work
Agreed
4. Taking offense - yahoos?
I took it as more of a defensive nickname as April is close friends to most of us, and a stranger encroaching on a friendship could be called a negative name to help emphasize the closeness between our members. Not that she was calling anything done by these people as crackpot ideas. I, too, am friends (maybe not as close as you) to these people and didn't take offense to it because it was not a direct comment, but indirect. Let's try to put this behind us because we see that anger, frustration, or annoyance is influencing our responses
5. Meeting depleting club funds
I have full confidence that Paul will be able to control COMAS funds, but Paul can't control other groups's funds. I'm thinking that a method of obtaining funding for the meeting that doesn't directly correlate to a group's membership funds might be a good idea. But, this is an opinion, chaos will follow, and it would need to be discussed by the officers and not all the members. Unless the officers would like this.
6. Different meeting types - rival MACNA
To me, this reference is moot. It doesn't matter what others are doing. We, Oklahomans, are in charge of this statewide meeting. This is also our first meeting. No offense, but I don't expect much and will be happy with even something small. Now, if it goes beyond my expectations, I'll be even more pleased. Things like this take lots of time to develop into a huge event. I don't expect things to happen all at once, and would hope no one is raking themselves over the coals to try to make this anywhere comparable to other large conferences for our first try.
7. Why doesn't Paul ask for help? Him and his 500 emails...
True. But as I stated, sometimes it goes with the job. Many of us are willing to help, but don't have the power or authority to impress potential sponsors.
8. Final remarks...
I really don't have any but for everyone to relax a little. This is going to take time. Some of it will be out of our hands. Some of it will need to involve us. When the time comes for everyone to gather, the most important thing is for everyone to meet each other because we are all in this hobby together. I eagerly await meeting OKAA and SOMAS members.
You bring up a good and relatively obvious point about the chaos that come from bulk opinions. But I have to say that, yes, I have planned large (in my opinion) meetings. I found the hardest part was actually finding a site to hold it at. Afterall, we have the hardest part accomplished; we all like the same thing. If people are willing to go, they are willing and eager to hear from just about anyone famous or not as long as the whole meeting is about what we are interested in a group; aquariums.
2. People approaching April
I'm curious as well, but a little off topic.
3. Meeting needing club support to work
Agreed
4. Taking offense - yahoos?
I took it as more of a defensive nickname as April is close friends to most of us, and a stranger encroaching on a friendship could be called a negative name to help emphasize the closeness between our members. Not that she was calling anything done by these people as crackpot ideas. I, too, am friends (maybe not as close as you) to these people and didn't take offense to it because it was not a direct comment, but indirect. Let's try to put this behind us because we see that anger, frustration, or annoyance is influencing our responses
5. Meeting depleting club funds
I have full confidence that Paul will be able to control COMAS funds, but Paul can't control other groups's funds. I'm thinking that a method of obtaining funding for the meeting that doesn't directly correlate to a group's membership funds might be a good idea. But, this is an opinion, chaos will follow, and it would need to be discussed by the officers and not all the members. Unless the officers would like this.
6. Different meeting types - rival MACNA
To me, this reference is moot. It doesn't matter what others are doing. We, Oklahomans, are in charge of this statewide meeting. This is also our first meeting. No offense, but I don't expect much and will be happy with even something small. Now, if it goes beyond my expectations, I'll be even more pleased. Things like this take lots of time to develop into a huge event. I don't expect things to happen all at once, and would hope no one is raking themselves over the coals to try to make this anywhere comparable to other large conferences for our first try.
7. Why doesn't Paul ask for help? Him and his 500 emails...
True. But as I stated, sometimes it goes with the job. Many of us are willing to help, but don't have the power or authority to impress potential sponsors.
8. Final remarks...
I really don't have any but for everyone to relax a little. This is going to take time. Some of it will be out of our hands. Some of it will need to involve us. When the time comes for everyone to gather, the most important thing is for everyone to meet each other because we are all in this hobby together. I eagerly await meeting OKAA and SOMAS members.
Travis L. Stevens
New member
Thank you for taking the time to read all of it. That's a lot of verbiage :lmao: I guess I'm the middle ground. I would love to be deeply involved in the planning but realize that at the time, I'm more hinderance than help.
herpchat
New member
Well technically you can put me on the list as a professional speaker as I have given talks at more then a dozen fish clubs across the US and my presentation has been shown in over a dozen countries. The OKAA also has another professional speaker, Dean Hougen who is world renoun in South American Cichlids and one of the founders of the Apisgramma Study Group. Truth be known I give about half or more of the presentations at the OKAA but we have also had a number of outside people come in too and most don't mind comming in if you meet their travel, lodging, and food expenses. This year we will have Peter Unmack twice, and also have Michi Tobler speak and join our group. Both of these people are also world renoun (if you do FW). I learned a lot from Michi's talk including that wild mollies have oral sex. After observing it I understand it now, they truely do.
Now back to the point, it sounds like Paul wants a symposium instead of group meeting which is fine by me. I do think interclub interaction is a good thing which can grow membership.
Next weekend we will be doing a membership drive at Petco, the management at Petco welcomes our local society educating its employees and its customers on how to treat fish (Something Petsmart does not allow). Our local petshops have also signed on for this as well. Petco has a special event going on so will have a lot of trafic comming in and out so they invited us to participate and set up our booth.
I will also say that anyone here is free to come out to our meeting this Sat from 1 - 4 pm. It is supposed to be Peter Unmack talking about Rainbowfish (He is an Ausie with vast knowledge of Rainbowfish in addition to US Pupfish which his last talk was about).
Now back to the point, it sounds like Paul wants a symposium instead of group meeting which is fine by me. I do think interclub interaction is a good thing which can grow membership.
Next weekend we will be doing a membership drive at Petco, the management at Petco welcomes our local society educating its employees and its customers on how to treat fish (Something Petsmart does not allow). Our local petshops have also signed on for this as well. Petco has a special event going on so will have a lot of trafic comming in and out so they invited us to participate and set up our booth.
I will also say that anyone here is free to come out to our meeting this Sat from 1 - 4 pm. It is supposed to be Peter Unmack talking about Rainbowfish (He is an Ausie with vast knowledge of Rainbowfish in addition to US Pupfish which his last talk was about).
I did post while somewhat angry. It was not directed at Paul as a person in any way, nor towards anyone specifically. Yes, I have helped to plan many large (and small) events and I know the effort it takes. My point was simply that more heads and hands are better than a few.
The point was made that we don't even know where to have such a meeting. Had anything been said at the meeting, or in a thread topic, a place might have been found relatively easily. My son had an entire jazz band concert at a church auditorium that would be plenty big enough to host such a meeting. I don't have access to that, but my point is that different people have access to different places, if we just know there is a need.
I also agree that there is no way you can make all the people happy all the time. There is absolutely no way to incorporate all of the ideas into a 1 day time frame, but the fact remains that no ideas had been offered because no one knew of this meeting. There could be a ton of different ideas coming from different folks that the main executors of this plan hadn't even considered.
As far as all of the behind the scenes work, again, I am not knocking how Paul has directed this club. It has grown fantastically in the past few years and I believe he has helped to make it a success, but the success was not his alone. This is not Paul's COMAS, but a club which belongs to the members that he is the leader of. As such, the members should be informed of these type of events. I know as president that Paul has to make day to day decisions, but huge decisions such as this meeting should not be his alone to make. The club as a whole should have been informed that someone had approached him requesting a large get together, and the club should have had some say as to whether or not it was interested, not just be informed that a date had been set and oh, by the way, we're hosting it and we need help.
I also stand by my statement that if Paul needs help, the same as any club member, he should ask for it. Again, as a club, we're all in this together. He is the leader, but the club is his team. I once was secretary of this very club, and even as an officer, I was never requested to help in any way other than prepare the previous months minutes, even tho I offered several times. I am personal friends with nearly all of the LFS in our area, and have contacts that Paul may not. I am at least an outlet that has never been tapped.
PaulT, I am not downing any of your specific friends. I, too, am personal friends with some of the well known names in reefkeeping, however, trying not to overcomplicate things, I think this year may be best with only one or no extremely well known speakers simply as a monetary consideration. There are people in every facet of this club, as I'm sure there are in the other clubs, who could be considered experts in their field. I don't profess to know everything about seahorses, but I'm for sure better at it than some. PaulW has an extraordinary amount of knowledge on tanks and sumps, Gary probably can't be beat regarding large tanks, Steve could probably be considered an expert in cichlids, Gerald certainly has expertise in wild Betta's, we've got people who have successfully raised clownfish, and the list goes on and on. I don't even know who all the other clubs would have to offer up, but I'm sure there are members who have been successful in their endeavors.
My entire point of my message was that this headache was not Pauls alone, and that there were many people who have offered their assistance when (not if) needed. This has been a topic of discussion for quite some time, but it's only been that, a topic of discussion. First of all, a place needs to be found and I truly believe that club members could help with that - finding a large enough place at a reasonable price. THEN a date needs to be set, but it will probably have to coincide with whenever the space is available. I agree that the leaders of the various clubs should probably hash that one out. It wouldn't do any good to have a statewide meeting if 2 of the 4 clubs couldn't attend on any given date. After that, everyone has a specific date to work towards and a timeframe to react to and this thing could jump forward by leaps and bounds.
I am very sorry if I have offended anyone personally, as that was not my intent, however, some of the comments made in this thread were derogatory prior to mine, and that did strike a nerve. The whining about how this was such a burden on the back of a few also was annoying. The way to ease such a heavy burden is to pass it around, which can't be done if no one else knows you're carrying it.
I, again, offer whatever help I can to make this statewide meeting come to pass.
The point was made that we don't even know where to have such a meeting. Had anything been said at the meeting, or in a thread topic, a place might have been found relatively easily. My son had an entire jazz band concert at a church auditorium that would be plenty big enough to host such a meeting. I don't have access to that, but my point is that different people have access to different places, if we just know there is a need.
I also agree that there is no way you can make all the people happy all the time. There is absolutely no way to incorporate all of the ideas into a 1 day time frame, but the fact remains that no ideas had been offered because no one knew of this meeting. There could be a ton of different ideas coming from different folks that the main executors of this plan hadn't even considered.
As far as all of the behind the scenes work, again, I am not knocking how Paul has directed this club. It has grown fantastically in the past few years and I believe he has helped to make it a success, but the success was not his alone. This is not Paul's COMAS, but a club which belongs to the members that he is the leader of. As such, the members should be informed of these type of events. I know as president that Paul has to make day to day decisions, but huge decisions such as this meeting should not be his alone to make. The club as a whole should have been informed that someone had approached him requesting a large get together, and the club should have had some say as to whether or not it was interested, not just be informed that a date had been set and oh, by the way, we're hosting it and we need help.
I also stand by my statement that if Paul needs help, the same as any club member, he should ask for it. Again, as a club, we're all in this together. He is the leader, but the club is his team. I once was secretary of this very club, and even as an officer, I was never requested to help in any way other than prepare the previous months minutes, even tho I offered several times. I am personal friends with nearly all of the LFS in our area, and have contacts that Paul may not. I am at least an outlet that has never been tapped.
PaulT, I am not downing any of your specific friends. I, too, am personal friends with some of the well known names in reefkeeping, however, trying not to overcomplicate things, I think this year may be best with only one or no extremely well known speakers simply as a monetary consideration. There are people in every facet of this club, as I'm sure there are in the other clubs, who could be considered experts in their field. I don't profess to know everything about seahorses, but I'm for sure better at it than some. PaulW has an extraordinary amount of knowledge on tanks and sumps, Gary probably can't be beat regarding large tanks, Steve could probably be considered an expert in cichlids, Gerald certainly has expertise in wild Betta's, we've got people who have successfully raised clownfish, and the list goes on and on. I don't even know who all the other clubs would have to offer up, but I'm sure there are members who have been successful in their endeavors.
My entire point of my message was that this headache was not Pauls alone, and that there were many people who have offered their assistance when (not if) needed. This has been a topic of discussion for quite some time, but it's only been that, a topic of discussion. First of all, a place needs to be found and I truly believe that club members could help with that - finding a large enough place at a reasonable price. THEN a date needs to be set, but it will probably have to coincide with whenever the space is available. I agree that the leaders of the various clubs should probably hash that one out. It wouldn't do any good to have a statewide meeting if 2 of the 4 clubs couldn't attend on any given date. After that, everyone has a specific date to work towards and a timeframe to react to and this thing could jump forward by leaps and bounds.
I am very sorry if I have offended anyone personally, as that was not my intent, however, some of the comments made in this thread were derogatory prior to mine, and that did strike a nerve. The whining about how this was such a burden on the back of a few also was annoying. The way to ease such a heavy burden is to pass it around, which can't be done if no one else knows you're carrying it.
I, again, offer whatever help I can to make this statewide meeting come to pass.
herpchat
New member
April
You write novels!
I totally understand your points.
Now here is a question;
What is the COMAS leadership structure?
In the OKAA we have a leadership base and each person in it is assigned certain roles and we have status meetings to make sure we are on track, these are typically twice a year. These meetings are not on the regular days and typically last as long as a regular club meeting. We have accomplished alot and the starting of the Tulsa Chapter of our club was a great success.
You write novels!
I totally understand your points.
Now here is a question;
What is the COMAS leadership structure?
In the OKAA we have a leadership base and each person in it is assigned certain roles and we have status meetings to make sure we are on track, these are typically twice a year. These meetings are not on the regular days and typically last as long as a regular club meeting. We have accomplished alot and the starting of the Tulsa Chapter of our club was a great success.
captbunzo
Premium Member
I do love the idea of club interaction, etc. Visiting the website for OKAA gave me an idea. I am working on some improvements on the COMAS website right now and will have to work a page referring to other clubs in the area, etc.
Would be great for other clubs to do the same.
Would be great for other clubs to do the same.
herpchat
New member
I guess I should clarify;
President (oversees and steers the club and the board)
Vice President (takes over for the abscense of the President)
Secretary (handles the minutes)
Treasurer (handles the money)
BAP Chair (handles the Breeders Award Program) - Me
HAP Chair (handles the Horticulture Award Program) - Me
Donations Chair (solicites businesses for door prizes)
Membership Chair (handles new members, directs membership based activities)
Newsletter Editor (creates our newsletter)
Website Developer (creates and maintains website and database)
Members at Large 3 (they also get to vote on the Executive Board)
During our meetings we brainstorm and come up with ideas of what we want to do and then vote on issues. At any time in the year we can call a meeting. During my Presidancy I called 3 such meetings one of which was the formation of the Tulsa Chapter.
Now don't get me wrong each club is different and there is not doubt I love COMAS and plan to remain being a member. I was just tossing this out for thought.
President (oversees and steers the club and the board)
Vice President (takes over for the abscense of the President)
Secretary (handles the minutes)
Treasurer (handles the money)
BAP Chair (handles the Breeders Award Program) - Me
HAP Chair (handles the Horticulture Award Program) - Me
Donations Chair (solicites businesses for door prizes)
Membership Chair (handles new members, directs membership based activities)
Newsletter Editor (creates our newsletter)
Website Developer (creates and maintains website and database)
Members at Large 3 (they also get to vote on the Executive Board)
During our meetings we brainstorm and come up with ideas of what we want to do and then vote on issues. At any time in the year we can call a meeting. During my Presidancy I called 3 such meetings one of which was the formation of the Tulsa Chapter.
Now don't get me wrong each club is different and there is not doubt I love COMAS and plan to remain being a member. I was just tossing this out for thought.
captbunzo
Premium Member
Not to sound mean or anything, but I think we are getting a little off topic with this. If this needs to be discussed, I might suggest it would be better in a thread of it's own or just via PM/email with Paul Whitby personally.
But, of course, you do give me another thought.... That being to have some pages on the website documenting club bylaw type stuff, such as how the leadership structure works, etc.
TimV
New member
I'm sure you are just trying to be helpful, but your posts come off as a brand new member trying to tell COMAS how to run their business. As you will see as you attend a few meetings, we actually do know what we are doing. If you want to be helpful or are curious as to how the club is structured, it is best just to contact the officers. A simple "this is how we did it at X" post can be easily construed as arrogant meddling from a newcomer. I know this wasn't your intention, but in a textual forum, it can be difficult to ascertain one's tone.
T
herpchat
New member
I was not trying to be mean or anything, I was just wondering, we at OKAA did not document our leadership structure either, and I have been asked by other fish clubs and I explain it. Each club is different and I expect this club to have a different structure.
This is by no means any criticism of Paul, it is obvious he is doing a fantastic job with the club. I was just curious as to how decisions are made. When I run a club it tends to be more like a dictatorship but that is how I run things. I am not a people person where as Joe Anderson the OKAA president is and people like that. I have one of those personalities, you like me or you hate me. There is no inbetween.
This is by no means any criticism of Paul, it is obvious he is doing a fantastic job with the club. I was just curious as to how decisions are made. When I run a club it tends to be more like a dictatorship but that is how I run things. I am not a people person where as Joe Anderson the OKAA president is and people like that. I have one of those personalities, you like me or you hate me. There is no inbetween.
herpchat
New member
Gee how do I put this, COMAS was in existance before I joined and will be long after I am out of fish. You guys are obviously doing right so it works. I do not intentionally try to cause waves, it just happens.
My original intention was why not have some sort of joint venue so the different club members could meet and maybe have more people become cross members and I was not thinking like a symposium but something fun and entertaining. Even something like a barbeque or something.
Paul has his ideas and he is the boss, he has some very interesting insights and thinks more grandious then I was for this. I would love to see his idea become a reality. April points out that Paul has everyone behind him if he tells us that something needs to be done there will be scores of people that would assist anyway they can.
I wish that OKAA members were just as committed to their group. Just the sheer vocalization from here speaks waves to the commitment of its members.
My original intention was why not have some sort of joint venue so the different club members could meet and maybe have more people become cross members and I was not thinking like a symposium but something fun and entertaining. Even something like a barbeque or something.
Paul has his ideas and he is the boss, he has some very interesting insights and thinks more grandious then I was for this. I would love to see his idea become a reality. April points out that Paul has everyone behind him if he tells us that something needs to be done there will be scores of people that would assist anyway they can.
I wish that OKAA members were just as committed to their group. Just the sheer vocalization from here speaks waves to the commitment of its members.
Travis L. Stevens
New member
Gerald and all, I definitely have valued all other input thus far. I have really cherished your input on the way OKAA works. I like to know that stuff. (I don't know why) But in short, I really think that this is beyond all of us. The project is already being worked on, has been for months, and at this point in time is not in need of the members input as of yet. As we all know, when the time comes, Paul WILL approach COMAS with a question/brainstorm setion when the time comes. He won't forget about us. Until then, there is some basic structure that needs to be made before the cool little details can fill it in. After all, it's just like building a tank stand You have to have a strong foundation and is usually best if one or two people work on. But skinning the frame, stains, varnishes, wood choice, paints, molding, etc is all the details that can be figured out later, and that can take many people to do without getting to cramped. Let's just all sit back for a while and let things develop.
You have to have a strong foundation and is usually best if one or two people work on. But skinning the frame, stains, varnishes, wood choice, paints, molding, etc is all the details that can be figured out later, and that can take many people to do without getting to cramped. Let's just all sit back for a while and let things develop.
captbunzo
Premium Member
Very diplomatically put, Travis. In all honesty, I'd like people to stop there flipping whining. Paul does an incredible job leading the club and doesn't need this crap from people.
Postcards. Send him postcards. Little presents. SOMETHING appreciative.
But not this B.S.
Postcards. Send him postcards. Little presents. SOMETHING appreciative.
But not this B.S.
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