Journal of a 60g shallow reef and aquaman cave

[ChloroPhil]

Steve,

First of all, feel free to monopolize the thread, it's quite alright. As much as I like the "Wow, cool! Subbed" posts, I enjoy reading your thoughts more.

Thanks for the X trumps Y info. I'll keep that in mind when placing things.

I'm right there with you on the visual plane thing. Thankfully the tank's lower than my line of sight when sitting in front of it so I'll get a natural top(ish) down look. After reading your post about wishing you'd known more about coral placement and seeing legginess in some tanks it's a consideration I'm taking seriously. It's my hope that as long as I can place the corals right and choose appropriate species, that they'll grow in such a way as to minimize light undersides. Yet another benefit of a shallow tank; there's not much room for upwards views.

Good spot on the flow. In this case I was ahead of ya there. Just this one case. As soon as I saw this tank I immediately knew I wanted to do a shallow "biotope" (I use that word very loosely here). I'd already found the two MP40s and it clicked. I now had the tank and more than enough flow to do a reef crest system like this. The big trick was doing the searches to see what sorts of corals lived in that kind of region. That first picture, among others I can't find anymore, were what inspired me to use corals with plating, encrusting, and dense ball growth habits. I'm still working on that bit.

Now for a thought dump. After more consideration and photo searching I'm torn. I'd originally envisioned quite a bit of open sand, aka semi-lagoon style. Now, considering the amount of flow I'll likely need to get the growth patterns I want I doubt sand will stay where I want it for very long. That's got me thinking about covering the bottom with rock and rubble, then filling in the gaps with sand. I'll still have a couple inches of sand around the edges of the glass for aesthetic reasons. That'll give me a lot of room to mount different corals and get a look similar to the floor-of-coral seen in the pictures.

Decisions, decisions.

 

[ChloroPhil]

More photos that inspire me.

Shots like this are why I chose to go with multple groups with a big space in the middle.

 

[scolley]

I'm right there with you on the visual plane thing. Thankfully the tank's lower than my line of sight when sitting in front of it so I'll get a natural top(ish) down look.

Well IMO you've just figured out the best way to solve the problem - design for a top view tank, or 45 degree look-down anyway. Problem solved. :thumbsup: You'll just have to go against the grain and say, "Sorry. I don't do front on, rectangular, cropped to the edges of the front glass Full Tank Shots. Not 'scaped for that."

I'm amazed that this hobby is so obsessed with hoods, that prevent viewing from the top. Corals respond to light. Light comes from above. And that's where the most dramatic view of most reef tanks is. No surprise in that I guess. Glad you've figured that little problem out!

...considering the amount of flow I'll likely need to get the growth patterns I want I doubt sand will stay where I want it for very long. That's got me thinking about covering the bottom with rock and rubble, then filling in the gaps with sand.

Your research may lead you to believe that your target 'tope has rock rubble bottoms. But I don't think (think as the operative word) that you'll have a problem with the sand. Just get reasonably large grained aragonite sand. It will naturally clump. PLUS the Vortechs should not cause a problem if the bottom of your lowest MP40 is 9-10" from the top of the sand. Their widest flow is the water sucked back to the pump along the edges. That is a broad (so amazingly gently) flow. The high velocity flow is the center cone blowing out from the pump. If your pumps are placed high enough so that that cone hits somewhat above the surface of you rocks (where the corals are), you won't have a problem with the sand IMO. Plus just like like light, higher currents are generally higher up the water column, so you'll want to set your pump height accordingly.

As soon as I saw this tank I immediately knew I wanted to do a shallow "biotope" (I use that word very loosely here). I'd already found the two MP40s and it clicked. I now had the tank and more than enough flow to do a reef crest system like this. The big trick was doing the searches to see what sorts of corals lived in that kind of region.

Great decision IMO. Should look awesome! AND be fairly original. :thumbsup: But you've hit the nail on the head about the problem - it' s gonna take a lot of research to first IDENTIFY the right coral, and then to SOURCE them. The latter problem is twofold. To look right this is going to have to be as you have previously stated - few large corals (vs. many small). So you'll either have identified an affordable source of large colonies OR plan on waiting 4-6 years for it to grow out, before the 'scape will look as intended.

And yes, some monti caps grow crazy fast in the right conditions. But having one coral that wants to take over the tank will be a PITA if all the others are just plodding along. IMO, I would avoid known fast growers if possible, unless you can get ALL fast growers (not likely).

I personally LOVE that last shot. And it's TOO bad that there are no good "pack" fish in the hobby that school or shoal. Those Chromis in the 2nd to last shot look great. But GENERALLY all the common reef "pack" fish kill each other off one by one if put in anything less than a huge tank. A 60 gallon tank is the perfect formula for eventually having just one surviving Chromis. I'd be delighted if you figured out (or researched and found) a solution to that problem too! 'Cuz I can't. I've tried.

 

[insanefishguy]

Thanks guys. I'm only 3.5 hours from NYC here in the heart of Nowhere, PA. Once the room's wet and running you're more than welcome to pay it a visit. There aren't many hobbyists out my way.

premilove,

The 300s are 72x36x24. Just barely big enough for me to bathe or sleep in if I so chose and curled up a little.

There are a lot more hobbyists around than you may think... Looks like a great project start.

 

[tnyr5]

Yup yup, many many more than you think . For species, look at gemmifera, humillis, monticulosa, hyacinthus, samoensis, papillare, digitifera, spathulata, thick-branched pocillopora, etc. Keep the tabling ones down near the bottom then you don't have to see their undersides

 

[ChloroPhil]

Hey there guys, thanks for stopping by. I'm glad to see more hobbyists than I thought in the area. Once I've made a little more progress you should stop by and visit, and maybe have a room opening/dedication party.

Tony, thanks for the species list. Because I'm so heavily involved in the planted tank hobby and the technical side of keeping said tanks I'm intentionally keeping myself at a "dumb" hobby level with reefs. I'm happy with a solid understanding of the science behind the methods while not memorizing species names for each and every coral or fish. "Oooh, pretty pink Birdsnest" is good enough for me.


Update- I just got my first electric bill and am going to have to change plans. There's no way I'm going to pay as much as I'd have to to maintain 4 highly lit systems. Don't worry, the reef's staying.

 

[scolley]

Update- I just got my first electric bill and am going to have to change plans...

LEDs

 

[ChloroPhil]

I've considered it. A sexted of Kessil Amazon Sun 150s over the other big tank would certainly be dramatic and easy on the power bill. It'll just cost a boatload to start up. Then there was the original plan of having water storage tanks everywhere. That's a lot of $$ in heater and circulation pumps. The current revised plan is to use either the other 300 or the 220 as the water storage tank. I'll probably go with the 300 for now as it'll hold more water and I won't have to buy a ton of new lights.

I'm going to stick with the 8x T5 fixture for the reef. That's perfect for coverage, PAR, and color options. Plus, it was free so that trumps just about any other consideration.

 

[ChloroPhil]

9.17 Update- in tank plumbing and rock work.

Tonight I got a wild hair up my you know what and decided it was time to do the in tank plumbing and do the rock work. All of the rock I'm using is old and was used in test tanks previously so the plan is to fill the tank with fresh water and let it circulate for a good long time with water changes every so often. I've still got a lot of work to do with getting the sump, skimmer, and ATS plumbed but at least now I can have the rock soaking while the rest of the system, and other tanks, get their lovin' too.

You'll probably notice some changes from the original rock work. I had to change the orientation of the big rock to hide the downdraft and add more to cover the PVC as it was a bit more intrusive than I thought it would be. I also added a couple pieces to fill in areas I felt needed something extra. In the end I'm happier with the arrangement than I was with the original, so that's a good thing.

Tank with the star of the show, a mighty big and beautiful rock.



The Secret Downdraft. I am aware of the risks involved with using a single downdraft tube, but it is one I'm more than willing to take to achieve the aesthetic I want. It's a 1" tube with a 2" to 1" bushing. An eggcrate and plastic mesh screen will be installed prior to the addition of any livestock. There's at least 0.5" of clearance on all sides so inflow shouldn't be restricted at all.



The rock I picked to work with. There was a lot more to choose from, but it was a mix of Pacific and Atlantic rock and I wanted to use smaller and lighter pieces. The whiter pieces have been thoroughly hit with a garden hose a couple times over the course of a few days and left to dry in the sun. The browner pieces didn't get that treatment. Mostly because I forgot they were sitting in a corner after doing the initial design mock up.



Let there be rock work!









Semi-final arrangement before adding rubble and fine sand to stabilize the foundation.

 

[ChloroPhil]

9.17 update continued- finalized rock work with rubble and sand foundation/stabilizer.

The sand is only temporary as it's old, used, and thoroughly dead. The plan is to keep it in there to help maintain stability while the rock soaks. I'm going to have the VorTechs full blast on whichever setting will hit the rock hardest and push water into all the nooks and crannies. I'm guessing Reef Crest or Nutrient Export mode. When I'm satisfied no more nasty stuff is leaching from the rock I'll suck out all the sand, fill in the spaces under the rock with rubble, add new and shiny white substrate, and let the salt fun begin.

Using the fine grain stuff is also an experiment of sorts. I want to see how badly it gets blown around when flow is at 100%.

Look! The PVC already has a new form of dripping coralline! What a pretty purple.





Final arrangement barring issues with some of the smaller pieces getting blown around. There's all sorts of room for attaching corals and letting them grow out. I'd call this a successful job. Water and VorTechs to be added tonight.



The next step is to get the sump "stand" framing done, make the egg crate rock rack, dump the rest of the old sand and rock in there, and plumb it all.

 

[scolley]

Good looking 'scape Phil. I think my only concerns are how vertical the peaks are. It's consistent across the three peaks, but you might consider "softening" the peaks a bit - like putting a small rock in the nook of the right angle (as seen from the front), and something similar on the right right side of the peak on the right hand rock. But that's me and my preference of slopes vs. vertical rock features.

What are the two additional bulkheads? Returns? If so, they need just as much integration in the rockwork as the overflow. Do like that overflow though! :thumbsup:

 

[ChloroPhil]

Steve,

Thanks for the feedback. I'm kind of proud of the overflow (even though it's super simple) and am very happy with how it worked out.

I'm usually with you on the slope rather than vertical feel. In this case I'm purposefully going for a vertical rock arrangement with the intention that the rock is only a foundation for coral. If this were going to be a FOWLR or planted system I'd definitely soften things up a bit. I also left a bit of wiggle room for placement of live rock when the time comes. Arranging rock like this isn't my usual MO so I have to keep telling myself it's not fully done yet and keep from adding more so it looks finished/refined while it soaks. In the past I've over-filled my tanks with rock initially to satisfy my aquascaper's penchant for beautiful rock work while forgetting that it's really just a substrate for placing corals. I'm trying really hard to avoid doing that this time. I had to keep asking myself "does this rock add or take away from the arrangement?" and repeating "less is more" when doing the arranging.

As for the nook you mentioned, there's a good amount of rock in that area and I left it open for coral mounting. The rock goes pretty far back so I'll be able to use it to get some nice layering and feeling of depth. Some sort of coral will eventually fill in that space and soften the angle quite a bit.

I really like the open concept and want to maintain that as much as possible. The entire concept for the aquascape/rock work was to create a triangular foundation with a lot of vertical area to mount corals while maintaining maximum horizontal space for them to grow out. It may look pretty stark and linear now but with some careful grooming the coral growth should soften the lines and fill in the space well. Again, proof of concept will be in the doing.

Also, the pics were taken with only a ceiling bulb for light. It looks different in person and I'm sure will look even more different once there's water and a full lighting array above it. I'm sure there will be some refining work to be done, but I'm pretty happy with it as a foundation.

The PVC plugs on either side are just that, hole plugs. They're both going to be covered with substrate. Or, if I have to, rock and/or coral. I left a 2.5-3" gap between the glass and rock on all sides and hope the substrate stays in place well enough so I can maintain the spacing. Especially on the right side.

 

[scolley]

Well, I knew there would be a method to the madness. And you ARE right, it's just the substrate, not the endpoint. And it IS tricky IMO to set that up correctly. So before you finish, you might want to go back to those lovely underwater shots, and play the "I'll put one of those here, and one of these over there... " game. That should be especially easy given your decision to go with a few large corals.

If you can get through that with a good mental picture of how it will look, knowing what could go where, you're good to go.

 

[ChloroPhil]

I've been playing the coral placement game for quite a while and did a lot of it last night while doing the arrangement. There's still a lot of searching and decision making yet to do as far as choosing species and placing them properly. Thankfully I've got a lot of time to do that while the rock soaks and the system cycles. Our XPort-PO4 is a really strong PO4 adsorbent but even with a filter full of it I anticipate it's going to take at least a month, maybe two, to fully leech the PO4 out of the rock and sand.

I'm torn on going with FW and a lot of nutrient removing media until the levels are on the low end or hitting it hard for a month then adding salt and getting an ATS running. OR, FW for a month, add salt and cycle THEN get the ATS up. I don't want algae using up nutrients and interfering with the cycle...

Thoughts anyone? The only thing set in stone is going with FW for at least a month. I want to be able to do massive water changes easily. Remember, I'm on a well so there will be no chlorine/chloramines to worry about.

 

[gregrocks79]

Really liking this build!! Nice aquascaping too

 

[Centralreefs]

Awesome work

 

[ChloroPhil]

Gregrocks and Centralreefs,

Thank you for the kind words and encouragement. The more thought I put into the system and the more progress I make the more I want to do. Making sure I take my time to do things slowly and properly is made easier with encouragement from people like you.

 

[gregrocks79]

Keep it up!! So far this is going to be one of my favorites!! Nice clean work. I have no patience lol

 

[ChloroPhil]

9.18 mini update-

My curiousity got the better of my better judgement and I put substrate in the tank while doing the leak test. Because someone I trust installed the bulkheads I assumed there wouldn't be any leaks. Ooops. ALWAYS ASSUME A LEAK SOMEWHERE BONEHEAD! We didn't use silicone like I always have in the past and what do you know? One of the 1 inchers started slowly dripping. :sad2:

The tank's still full with a bucket under the leak point. It'll get drained and emptied tonight. Silicone will be applied on Friday night.

BIG QUESTION- I'm considering mounting frags of an encrusting species on the downdraft piping. Will coral adhere directly to PVC or should I rough it up a bit; or even go so far as to coat it with silicone and sand?

Why did I put substrate in there, you ask? Because I wanted to see how badly an MP40 would blow fine sand around on full blast. The answer is pretty badly. Surprisingly it was worse on Lagoon Random than Reef Crest Random. I fully expected Reef Crest to be the hardest blasting of the random settings. Apparently in my tank in this particular spot I was wrong. This particular pump was placed right below the water's surface on the left side (with the main rock mass) about halfway between the front of the big rock and front glass pane. It seems that part of the cone was hitting one of the rocks in front causing it to cycle back toward the pump. (edit: if you look at the last picture you can see a shadow on the bottom of the big rock where the rock in front abuts the big guy. That's the spot I'm talking about. The rock in front has a little bit of a scoop to it that redirected flow.) That created one heck of a dune/ridge.

How did I fix it? I put another rock there. Hopefully it'll shield the substrate enough to keep it from blowing around. Sorry, I don't have any pics because of all the detritus/crap that was in the sand. It all got kicked up and made visibility terrible.

On the plus side, the same settings on the right side, even halfway down the pane, doesn't cause any issue with the substrate.

I've got to say, these things can move some water, holy cow! Even one on full blast had water going hither and yon throughout the tank. I can only imagine what two will do. I'm no longer at all concerned about there being low flow areas anywhere in this baby.

Sadly, one of the pumps I was going to use is fried. Happily I found two more in a different storage room. Now, between the 4 original systems I've got enough parts to make two working pumps. I'm hooking the 2nd up tonight to see what sort of havoc I can wreak with both of them going full bore. MUAHAHAHAHAH

TL/DR: MP40s are amazing and I'm in love. I'll never use anything other than VorTechs in my reefs again...until something better comes out.

For those who've used VorTechs for a while, what setting have you found to provide the strongest flow and widest range of pulse intensity? Lagoon Random appears to give really good broad pulsing flow. Reef Crest Random seems somewhat lacking all around. It didn't appear to push water as hard nor were the pulses very strong. Is it just me imagining things?

 

[tnyr5]

Lagoon pushes more water overall, reef crest has larger "swings" between high and low flow. Coral should have no problem growing over pvc.