Just a question to understand the pairing process a bit better.

[cab395]

Hello everyone. I am writing this question today just to ask a few questions about my two clown fish. I am in no rush to pair them up, but I just would like to understand the process a bit better.

I have a fancy Ocellaris clown fish which is orange, and a black-and-white Ocellaris clown. The orange one is about 2 inches, and the black one is about an inch and a half. Therefore, I can only assume that the orange one will become the female and the black one will become the male. The two came from two separate tanks at the LFS but seem to be getting along.

They have been in my tank for exactly one week. I have witnessed a seizure like behavior described in the meeting ritual, however, it has always been the orange one that I have witnessed doing the seizures. This was unexpected to me, since I was under the impression that the smaller of the clowns would be the one doing the seizure like dance. Since the day I saw the orange clown "dancing" (a few days ago), I have witnessed no more of this seizure behavior. However, in a bizarre turn of events, The larger orange clown charges the smaller black clown every once in a while. There doesn't appear to be any harm coming to the black clown, and they both swim together still, but the Orange clown will occasionally rush the black clown.

Here is where my question comes in. I have yet to see the black clown do the seizure like dance after being rushed by the orange clown. The orange clown is obviously more dominant, however the Black clown will not do the seizure dance. I am watching the two swim together as I type this and they are swimming nice and gently with one another. The orange clown, will still go after the black one every once in a while, and they're not together 24/7 but for the most part they're peaceful toward one another. Is it possible that the clowns will pair up even if the black clown does not show any seizure like behavior? As I said, I'm only confused because they seem to be hanging out with one another, but the only one I've seen do the dance is also the more aggressive one. Again I'm in no rush but just want to understand this process a bit better.

Thanks for any and all input!

 

[ska d]

You have just described my pair of clowns. I also have a regular occelaris and a black and white. I introduced the black and white after spotting the female laying eggs one day. They immediately paired. When I researched I also read that the male would be doing the "shuffle" but it was opposite. The female has always done the wiggling even to this day. They lay eggs every month or so. From what I've read it really depends on the size of the male, whether the female will accept it or not. Apparently if a male grows to within 20% of the size of the female it is not accepted.

 

[D-Nak]

I think the confusion here is understanding the difference between the "you become the male shake" and the "mating shake" which happen (obviously) at different times. When the pair is working out who is to become the female, all sorts of things happen -- fighting, biting, shaking, even swimming upside-down. The more aggressive one, usually the larger of the two, will do more of the shaking and bullying but at the beginning it's common to see both fish fighting with an equal amount of aggression.

This pairing process takes time, and you'll see the dominant fish asserting her dominance from time to time. by bullying, shaking, etc. Sometimes it takes a long time for a pair to actually mate. People have reported it taking years to happen, and this can be due to many factors, typically due to environmental factors -- too many distractions (loud noises, aggressive tankmates, moving from tank to tank), poor water quality, poor nutrition, etc.

Once the pair is ready to mate, then you'll most likely see the male shaking. When they begin to lay eggs, the male will tend to the nest, and the female may do her share of guarding it.

 

[D-Nak]

You have just described my pair of clowns. I also have a regular occelaris and a black and white. I introduced the black and white after spotting the female laying eggs one day. They immediately paired. When I researched I also read that the male would be doing the "shuffle" but it was opposite. The female has always done the wiggling even to this day. They lay eggs every month or so. From what I've read it really depends on the size of the male, whether the female will accept it or not. Apparently if a male grows to within 20% of the size of the female it is not accepted.

I'm don't think I understand what you're saying. The female was alone when she laid eggs, and then you added another fish? If so, it means that the female had another mate prior to you getting it. I don't think females typically lay eggs without a mate.

 

[ska d]

I'm don't think I understand what you're saying. The female was alone when she laid period.and then you added another fish?I have If so, it means that the female had anoI gt her mate prior to you getting it. I don't think females typically lay eggs without a mate.

Yes I was surprised to. I got the female at least 3 years ago and she has been alone in my tanks for that peroid. So when I saw her laying eggs, i have pics and a video I think (post it when i get home from work) i was shocked and felt bad for her. So about, i dunno, 6months ago i introduced the male. Forgot to mention it took almost 2years before i witnessed the female laying eggs. The day i put the male in the female was super excited, I have a video of the first 5 min together and again I was shocked to see them accept each other so readily. I can't say for sure if the female had a mate before I got her but she was small so I don't think so.

 

[D-Nak]

Yes I was surprised to. I got the female at least 3 years ago and she has been alone in my tanks for that peroid. So when I saw her laying eggs, i have pics and a video I think (post it when i get home from work) i was shocked and felt bad for her. So about, i dunno, 6months ago i introduced the male. Forgot to mention it took almost 2years before i witnessed the female laying eggs. The day i put the male in the female was super excited, I have a video of the first 5 min together and again I was shocked to see them accept each other so readily. I can't say for sure if the female had a mate before I got her but she was small so I don't think so.

That makes sense, I just didn't think the female would lay eggs without a male present. Sounds like she was desperate! I completely get why the female was so receptive to her new male companion -- she needed him to fertilize the eggs (this happens after the female lays the eggs).

 

[cab395]

I think the confusion here is understanding the difference between the "you become the male shake" and the "mating shake" which happen (obviously) at different times. When the pair is working out who is to become the female, all sorts of things happen -- fighting, biting, shaking, even swimming upside-down. The more aggressive one, usually the larger of the two, will do more of the shaking and bullying but at the beginning it's common to see both fish fighting with an equal amount of aggression.

This pairing process takes time, and you'll see the dominant fish asserting her dominance from time to time. by bullying, shaking, etc. Sometimes it takes a long time for a pair to actually mate. People have reported it taking years to happen, and this can be due to many factors, typically due to environmental factors -- too many distractions (loud noises, aggressive tankmates, moving from tank to tank), poor water quality, poor nutrition, etc.

Once the pair is ready to mate, then you'll most likely see the male shaking. When they begin to lay eggs, the male will tend to the nest, and the female may do her share of guarding it.

Ohh, that makes sense. So what you're saying is that what I'm seeing is the larger, more dominant clown shaking to tell the smaller clown that he will become the male?