Just a thought on ich

[NarakuAulonocar]

Well it seems like many people are experiencing abnormal strains of ich (extended fallow requirement, resistance etc)

Based on a evolution course that I took, if some thing survives and reproduces, their resistance gets passed down. I feel like perhaps when copper or hypo is not used properly, some cyst manage to survive and reproduce. When this gets passed around it gets to be a PITA.

Is it possible that ich is evolving in our industry? I know some distributors and LFS keep low copper concentration and lower salinity.
Is it possible, that resistant ich are reproducing and passed on because they survived unsuccessful treatments which appear to be cured?
It just seems like an interesting possibility to me.

 

[b0bab0ey]

I've been doing this for 30+ years now, and more than a few times I've seen Ich that didn't "play by the rules". Continuous white spots on a fish (more than one month) despite being in full strength copper (2.0 ppm Coppersafe) during that entire month. I've seen the white spots disappear while being treated in full strength copper for an entire month and then come back once the copper is removed. I admit the times this has happened are very rare but it has happened more than once to me. Right now I'm very curious about how long Ich can live in the gills. I've read from more than one source now that it can live there in a cyst almost indefinitely or even become dormant. If this is true it seems to me that once Ich reaches the gills the fish is either toast or would at the very least always pose the threat of reintroducing Ich to a tank.

Honestly, I don't know what to think anymore. :sad2:

 

[NarakuAulonocar]

Hi b0bab0ey,

Thanks for sharing. I'm really frustrated with ich.


I have also experienced prolonged stay on fish (details mentioned in another post) and it seems that once it gets in the gills in sufficient concentration, the fish stops eating. My guess is that the only chance to survive is if ich drops off before the fish starves. In fact, my recent fish just died from what I think is ich in the gills.

i have also noticed that recently (from 2009 onward) EVERY fish I purchased from the LFS got ich and died.
Before 2007, I have never quarintined and never seen ich!
Are all fish in our LFS coming from the same few distributors? If so, are they treating their fish? I personally think they should not attempt low copper or slight hypo. IMO, that can cause natural selection of weird strains. They should either treat completely or not treat but use UV to prevent cross contamination.


I think we as hobbyist need to figure out how to accelerate the life cycle.
Speaking of which does anyone have experience where hyposalinity delayed the appearance of ich?

Does anyone have any reports of vaccines for ich? I think I read this somewhere in my quest to beat ich.

Its also hard to believe that ich has no natural enemy. Shouldn't "something" eat ich at some stage of its life cycle?

Ahh so many questions, so eager to beat ich!

I've been doing this for 30+ years now, and more than a few times I've seen Ich that didn't "play by the rules". Continuous white spots on a fish (more than one month) despite being in full strength copper (2.0 ppm Coppersafe) during that entire month. I've seen the white spots disappear while being treated in full strength copper for an entire month and then come back once the copper is removed. I admit the times this has happened are very rare but it has happened more than once to me. Right now I'm very curious about how long Ich can live in the gills. I've read from more than one source now that it can live there in a cyst almost indefinitely or even become dormant. If this is true it seems to me that once Ich reaches the gills the fish is either toast or would at the very least always pose the threat of reintroducing Ich to a tank.

Honestly, I don't know what to think anymore. :sad2:

 

[NarakuAulonocar]

Oh, before I forget..

Has any one experience ich after using a previously contaminated tank, buck net etc? This is assuming after they were dried and washed.

 

[b0bab0ey]

i have also noticed that recently (from 2009 onward) EVERY fish I purchased from the LFS got ich and died.
Before 2007, I have never quarintined and never seen ich!
Are all fish in our LFS coming from the same few distributors? If so, are they treating their fish? I personally think they should not attempt low copper or slight hypo. IMO, that can cause natural selection of weird strains. They should either treat completely or not treat but use UV to prevent cross contamination.

I've also experienced that Ich seems to be the rule rather than the exception these days. Back in the day it seemed like the opposite was true. So much so that I didn't QT for 20+ years and can only recall 3-4 outbreaks during that time. And considering I once had 8 or 9 s/w tanks throughout my house during that time, those aren't bad odds.

I can't blame it on a particular wholesaler because I've tried many different LFSs that use many different wholesalers (I ask). The only one I haven't gotten Ich from is Liveaquaria. Although I haven't ordered enough from them yet to form a definite opinion.

I honestly believe that Segrest and Quality Marine are the two best wholesalers out there. It was true back in the day and from talking to others I believe it's still true today. I just wish more LFSs would use them.