Just curious about a few things

bus927

New member
Hey guys, I had a couple things to ask seeing as I'm still in the research stage of starting out. I'm not 100% set on a certain tank size yet, but I'm thinking somewhere between a 75-90 gallon range. I wanted to do a setup with corals, probably not sps yet but I was just curious as to what's a good light setup that's not going to crush the bank account but would still be good with growing the lps. Also possibly looking at maybe a trigger sump as large as I could fit in the stand.. unless there was another sump with a refuge that would work better than a trigger system? I have no saltwater tank experience yet but I am fascinated with it.. totally into researching everything I can do so I know exactly what I'm doing. What are the benefits of having a reactor ? And an ato system also? I plan to have the ro/di hooked right into the room that i would plan to make my fish room.. what are good reef safe fish to put in a coral environment of that size...I'm leaning more towards a 90 gallon reef setup with 2 mp40s and possibly an apex controller down the road. I'm not sure of the positioning of the power heads for certain corals and things, but I figure with those power heads I could dial in exactly what I need for the corals I pick.. I'd love a pair of Wyoming white clownfish in there seeing that my wife loved how they looked. Do they NEED a host anemone? Also I'm not sure of a good reef cuc.. I originally was leaning towards a FOWLR but then after looking into it more I figured I'd go right for what I really wanted and do a reef.. so any help would be appreciated!
Thanks in advance
-Tom


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Welcome to the hobby, these are all good questions.
I'd start with the sticky on setting up at the top of this forum.
Then think some more on your goals for the tank, and come back for more specific advice.
 
There are good inexpensive options for lights that are T5, MH and even led, assuming $200 isn't crushing the bank account? Personally I'd spend a bit more up front and get a couple of $100 to $200 led fixtures like MarsAqua or OceanRevive and reduce your long term cost of buying new bulbs every year.

You can buy an expensive sump that is already made, like the one you mentioned. But you can save a small bank account if you go to the $1/gallon pet store sale and get the biggest tank that will fit in your stand, then add the baffles you need by siliconing in cut glass. It isn't hard. Any store, like Ace Hardware, will cut glass to size for you.

A reactor can do several jobs, but for starting out, they are NOT a requirement. I have one in my system as a precaution. It's plumbed in, but I don't run GFO, or carbon or any phosphate removal unless I need it, and I have never needed it (in 12 years!).

ATO is a nice convenience, and it can make your skimmer run more stable, but again, it's not required. I have one, but it's still not plumbed into the system. I top off 2 systems manually every day. It keeps me in touch with that is going on in my system.

I though you were trying to hold on to some of your bank account? MP40's are nice, but IMHO, unless you are going top of the line all the time with a big budget, they are crazy overpriced. Current has a new line of controlled wavemakers that even come with a remote. I saw them at a friend's store and I think they look really good. And they are way less expensive than MP40. And of course there are the Jebao pumps which were marginal when they first came out, but several generations later they are very good quality and very controllable.

Fish and corals and their placement is very individual. If you ask 10 people that question you'll get 12 to 15 different answers!

Be very careful here. Don't go buying expensive clowns right off at the start. Your system needs to cycle which can take a week or a month depending on how you do it. And even then, you WILL have diatom blooms, algae blooms and maybe even a bacteria (cyano) bloom over the first 6 to 12 months. If you rush into this, you will kill things and waste money. NOTHING good happens quickly in a marine aquarium! And no, clowns do not need a host anemone anymore than you need an aquarium. It may be nice to have (if you care for it) but it's not necessary.

CUC is another individual choice. At the start too many people buy too much CUC and many/most/all of them end up dying. Start out slow and don't rush things. I know it's hard, I was there once and I did things I knew were risky and trust me, listen to that little voice in the back of your head that says, "you shouldn't be doing this... yet." I lost lots of fish, corals and other inverts. If you have the finances and don't care about killing critters, you'll be fine (I won't like you, but you can do it). On the other hand, if you want a sustainable and durable reef, it can be done on a budget and with minimal loss of livestock. Just take your time.

You are doing research and that's really a good thing. Read as much as you can and ask lots of questions. That's why some of us are here... to try and help. Read the stickies at the top of this forum (you probably already have).

This can be a VERY confusing hobby because there are so many paths to success, and 10 times more to utter failure. And sometimes starting down one path will not allow you to do some other thing you might like to try. It can be aggravating. If your area has a local club, join it today and get involved! Seeing other people's tanks is a great way to see how things get done and a source for new and different ideas.There is a listing for local clubs here at RC: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=536
There are 2 in northern Ohio.

Best of luck and I invite you to ask questions all you want.
 
Thanks for the replies guys, and pretty much what I mean with breaking the bank would to me be like the kessil ap700 at like 900 bucks for the light. I hear mixed things and I know it's expensive to start which I'm okay with. I'm not starting tomorrow or anything just trying to get a handle on what a ballpark cost would be. Also I plan on breaking the bank on this but I was just trying to get it up and running and cycling then upgrading as I went. But the main reason I asked about the lighting was because I just wanted to know if I had to spend the big money or there was something good out there for not as much as the 700 and above lighting fixtures. I'm leaning towards leds for sure. And those clowns were just something my wife liked as she saw them in one of the specialty stores near our house. I wouldn't go any faster than what was correct. I don't like killing things for no reason just because I can't wait for things. Totally not that kind of person. I'm the guy treating a one dollar guppy because my son loved to watch him specifically and I had to keep him alive for him. The mp40s I like the wireless sync and the amount of control you have over them. I hear mixed reviews on the power head selection, though I rarely hear anything bad on the mp40s.. Hoping very soon a tank start up would be in the works though.. would you recommend an apex or just manually testing for all elements that it controls ?


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It sounds like you are going about this the right way, asking questions, reading and not in a rush. Good for you. That kind of approach will pay huge dividends in the end.

I'd recommend not investing in the Apex at first. All they do is nice, but there is very little they do that you can't do without one. I've been in the hobby for 12 years and have 4 tanks, I have a full blown Apex system with lots of extras sitting in my closet unused. Why? Because it doesn't do anything I need done that I can't do on my own. You'll learn a lot more and stay much more 'in touch' with your system if you do it yourself for at least the first 6 to 12 months. Once you understand the daily requirements and work your tank needs, then you can decide if spending $500 to $1000 on an Apex is worth the cost.

But that's just my 2 cents worth and I know most Apex owners who have already spent the money will disagree.
 
Now I have a freshwater tank now, nothing huge by any means.. just a small 20 gallon tank for my son who is 15 months old and he loves fish and the little tank I have so would it be worth it if I started out converting that to a salt to get the feel for salt? I know it takes a lot more work but just to get my hands wet so to speak on everything it takes to maintain a system? Or just play it cool and wait til I can get the system that I actually want to have ?


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You'll do well in the hobby. Anyone on here before they have a tank is on the path too success. I would do a 75 or 120g. Many reefers consider the 120 to be the perfect size. 90s are harder to aquascape. I also highly recommend a sump, and I prefer to built my own from breeder tanks. I would definitely not recommend transitioning your freshwater to salt. It will cost a lot and will be a hard way to learn. More tank volume = more stability, which gives you more time to correct problems


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You definitely don't want to start converting that 20 into your first saltwater tank. Believe it or not a larger tank is easier than a small one. The higher the water volume, the more stable the water parameters will be. I would recommend starting with the biggest tank that will fit in the space you have (within reason). 120g would be a great choice. I moved from SC to PA and sold my old reef before I left. I just got a 180g on craigslist that was up and running. It was the most expensive one I've seen used but it had most of the equipment I wanted and everything was clean and healthy. Don't be afraid to buy used. There is a classified section on here but you need a certain amount of posts before you can see it, I think it's 30 or something like that. I upgraded my powerheads to 2 MP40's and a gyre 175 that I got from the reef central classified. I also bought 20 coral frags for a fraction of what they would be in a LFS.

ATO may not be needed, but it is very convenient and it will keep your salinity stable vs dumping in large amounts of fresh water. My aquarium evaporates about 1.5 gallons a day in the winter, so for me it is a must have.

Before you get started make sure you buy good test kits and a refractometer. The swing arm testers are not as accurate. You can use the cheap API kits for ammonia and nitrites, but get seachem or read sea for calcium, alkalinity, magnesium. Hannah phosphorous checker is the way to go for phosphate testing.

As far as clean up crew, wait until you start to see some algae in the aquarium before you add or they will starve. Never put fish in without quarantine and never add corals without dipping. Your 20g might be a good option for a quarantine tank. You can research on here for info on dipping and quarantine.

Good luck, you are on the right path doing research ahead of time. I jumped into the hobby as I was at the fish store looking to set up my fresh water tank after moving south and jumped in way too fast without enough research. The poor fish, corals and my bank account paid the price for my rush.
 
Thanks guys for the info...So yeah I understand the higher volumes for stability things and I absolutely agree. I'd love somewhere between a 75 and a 120 for sure. But also I'm getting bored with freshwater.. and that's why I was thinking of the 20 turning into a saltwater tank. I wouldn't be thinking anything too elaborate. Maybe just some clowns or something of that nature.. I don't have the room right now for the big tanks yet.. and figured I already had the 20 setup.. then I was looking at a nano protein skimmer and a couple powerheads.. but if you guys think it would be too much of a hassle then I wouldn't venture down that road. I just get anxious to put the knowledge I learn to use.. and a saltwater tank was everything that Ive wanted to do for a long time.. and I know my son would love the colors of the tank.. he (we) have some guppies and gouramis with the color but the colors are such more intense which I think he would love.. especially with me thinking of setting it up in his room.


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Welcome to the forum! :wave:

You've gotten some great advice so far and you seem to have the right approach to be successful at keeping a marine aquarium. This is a game of patience. Nothing good happens fast in reef keeping. I know what the impatience is like in waiting for the right moment to start up the tank but being patient and going about it in a well prepared way will pay dividends.

As the others have said, starting off with converting that 20g could prove frustrating and going with something a bit larger would be more forgiving. It would be a shame to struggle with keeping a 20g going and end up giving up on the hobby out of frustration when a larger water volume would be easier to manage not to mention provide you with a greater range of critters that you could properly keep and care for.
 
bus927, I started with a 30g tank and ran it for 2 years before I switched to a 75g. Consider going to Petco when they do a $1/gallon sale and get a 40g breeder tank. It's big enough to get started and keep it as simple as possible. You can always use the 40g as a sump or a quarantine tank if you go up to a bigger tank.

It sounds like you are on a budget, so I'll add this caveat. This can be a crazy expensive hobby and it can be addictive. Some of the people here spend money like it grows on trees! You absolutely do not need a refractometer! A swing arm hydrometer that costs $5 will work just fine for you to start. Heck, I've been in the hobby for 12 years, I have 4 tanks (one is a 225g system full of sps and lps corals). I have a refractometer, but I use my hydrometer 99% of the time. And I use API test kits, they work just fine too. If you are keeping expensive fish and exotic, expensive hard to keep corals, better tools can be very helpful, but to start out and keep it simple, you don't need to buy the expensive equipment.:thumbsup:
 
Hey guys, I had a couple things to ask seeing as I'm still in the research stage of starting out. I'm not 100% set on a certain tank size yet, but I'm thinking somewhere between a 75-90 gallon range. I wanted to do a setup with corals, probably not sps yet but I was just curious as to what's a good light setup that's not going to crush the bank account but would still be good with growing the lps. Also possibly looking at maybe a trigger sump as large as I could fit in the stand.. unless there was another sump with a refuge that would work better than a trigger system?

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Imho, a cheap T5 light fixture with good bulbs, is the most fail safe lighting system. You can get all the light you need for around a hundred and twenty bucks off eBay, and that's with the bulbs. You can trade out those slightly less fancy bulbs for ATI coral pluses if you want, but you don't have to. With T5 lights I've found growing even SPS corals easier than keeping fish. The corals just really seem to thrive under them.

My suggestion for tank size, between a 75 and 90 would be the 90 if you are going to do a reef set up. 75, in my experience are too narrow and don't leave much room for rock scape, where as a 90 is wider and offers more floor space for coral placement and water movement.
 
I actually have access to a 40 breeder for free from my sister in law.. it's sitting in her basement just waiting for me to come and get it.. I just need the space.. and with my ideal setup I'd envision running a sump and everything but for this just a hob type deal may be the way I have to go.. what would the ratio of live rock to base rock be to make it all live ? Like a 75% base to 25% live kinda deal. I understand the poundage per gallon idea you would run for the poundage of rock so that's not an issue but just curious even though it takes longer to do how much of each would I need to start off successfully.. ? Thanks again Ron


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Crayola absolutely would I love to do the 90 and I actually found a wider 75 gallon than your standard that I wouldn't be opposed to checking into but it wasn't drilled.. I kinda am not confident enough to drill said tank myself.. so I was looking for reef ready right away.. if I was going that large that is. I may take the 40 gallon breeder advice seeing as I have one readily available to me for free.. not drilled but small enough to just get started as a setup to start to figure everything out through first hand experience. I'm the firm believer of learning through first hand experience, I can read and research all day long but when it comes time to do it, I learn better through doing the work myself. So if I couldn't start with the volume I'd envision right away but could still make it work I'd go for that and possibly use the 40b for a sump or just another display or quarantine tank if I chose that route. Any suggestions on good equipment for setting the 40 up for maybe just a fowlr ?


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Imho, a cheap T5 light fixture with good bulbs, is the most fail safe lighting system. You can get all the light you need for around a hundred and twenty bucks off eBay, and that's with the bulbs. You can trade out those slightly less fancy bulbs for ATI coral pluses if you want, but you don't have to. With T5 lights I've found growing even SPS corals easier than keeping fish. The corals just really seem to thrive under them.



My suggestion for tank size, between a 75 and 90 would be the 90 if you are going to do a reef set up. 75, in my experience are too narrow and don't leave much room for rock scape, where as a 90 is wider and offers more floor space for coral placement and water movement.



Um, a 75 and a 90 have the exact same footprint, which is why I suggested a 75 or a 120. It is the height vs the width on a 90 that is the problem. But correct on the t5


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