Just have to vent about some LFS

[Orcrone]

Went to an LFS. Actually it's more of a local chain of Pet Stores. It looked like they were trying to clean up their act. They had done maintenance on a number of tanks and had gotten in many new fish. Included in that were a group of about 8 relatively small (about 2") blue hippo tangs. I was back in there this weekend. They all had a severe case of ich. I asked someone working there what they would do about it. His answer was that they only have one 30 gallon tank to house sick fish and it was already full. So their solution is to let them sit there and die.

If a store allowed a disease to make their dogs sickly and die every animal rights group would be all over them, the news media would converge, etc. But there's nothing wrong with irresponsible behavior on the part of a store for bringing in fish susceptible to a parsite, exposing it to the parasite and then letting the fish suffer and die because they're not prepared to treat the fish and don't see any reason to prepare the facility properly.

I have a 20 gallon QT set up right now with, ironically, a very healthy & much larger blue hippo tang (purchased elsewhere) awaiting introduction to my DT. If the tank were empty I'd offer to take the fish off their hands and treat them (if not too late) and then find them good homes when cured.

It just makes me angry to see this irresponsible method of taking care of their fish and when they die treating it no different than a grocery store disposing of its out of date milk.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

 

[Cuervo]

You could blame the LFS to a degree, but really the blame lies with the consumer. If everyone who saw something like that in an LFS stopped shopping there, then the LFS would be forced to clean up their act or go out of business.

By the same token, if the LFS did take responsibility, quarantined and treated every fish that came in for 6 weeks, can you imagine the overhead it would add to their operation? Which in turn would make their fish far more expensive, which in turn may lead to their going out of business for being unable to compete.

Would you prefer to buy the fish that has been quarantined and treated for 6 weeks even though it costs twice as much, or would you go across the street and buy the fish that just came off the plane and cost half as much?

 

[Orcrone]

Personally I would pay twice as much, but I doubt any store could or does quarantine every specimen. Ironically the large blue hippo I purchased two weeks ago was less expensive than the small ones they're killing.

I have more of an issue of a relatively large store having a single 30 gallon tank for treating fish. And because of this they let them sit in the display tank, obviously dying, without any intention of treating them. Euthanasia would be preferable to a slow death. And what's more there isn't even an NFS sign on the tank. Wouldn't surprise me if they'd sell a fish to a (very) uneducated aquarist.

 

[thebanker]

Well, it's sad, but with the state of the economy, I'm sure there are many LFS owners who don't have the cash to run things properly. Running a pet show isn't always the most lucrative, and they usually operate on thin margins after paying their overhead. At the end of the day, the animals suffer, and yes it is sad.

Maybe put this thread in the "LFS Complaints" forum, just below the "Tunicate Q&A" forum.

 

[RenoR1]

That's why I stopped buying from our Petco. HORRIBLE, death camp style tanks. Everything is sick, "sand" was thick with algae, and water conditions were despicable. And they or corporate wont do anything about it

 

[Neptune_Fan]

I think I know what LFS you are talking about. I live in the Hampton Roads area and there isnt many LFS' but when I narrow down the few we have, its easy to figure it out. Good thing there are a few GOOD places we can find livestock, and they will order something special if you are looking for that. Send me a PM, as i dont want to publicy put any names out there.

 

[jonewald]

My local Petco isn't perfect. Store manager refuses to buy observation/hospital tanks for the store. At least they use one of their two saltwater systems when a fish comes down with ich and quarantine the whole system. Yes, it exposes everything else in that system to ich, but at least it can be treated.

 

[Cuervo]

Look at it from the perspective of the LFS owner. Once ich is in your system, in order to fix it, you really have 2 choices.. you either treat your entire system, or you move all your fish to a hospital system for treatment and run your main system fishless for a min of 30 days.

You could/should quarantine/treat every single batch of fish as they arrive, (since they're almost guaranteed to have ich) and not put them into the actual "sale" display for at least 4-6 weeks, being extremely careful not to contaminate your sale system in the process.

Put simply, it's just not realistic to expect this from the LFS, it's way too expensive.

The best the LFS can hope for really is to maintain water quality and try to provide a less stressful environment for the incoming fish so that they can fight off disease as well as possible.

Based on what we know about ich (and to an extent brook..) it's pretty safe to assume every LFS's sale tanks are infected with it. Some do better at hiding it than others and some turn the fish so quickly you don't actually see the symptoms in their tanks.

 

[cbianco]

...If a store allowed a disease to make their dogs sickly and die every animal rights group would be all over them, the news media would converge, etc. But there's nothing wrong with irresponsible behavior on the part of a store for bringing in fish susceptible to a parsite, exposing it to the parasite and then letting the fish suffer and die because they're not prepared to treat the fish and don't see any reason to prepare the facility properly...

I think I highlighted an important comment the the OP made here.

Larger animals seem to have plenty of protections. Smaller animals see to be neglected (no pun intended) when it comes to protections.

Does anyone know of a store that has been fined/shut down/summoned for mistreatment of their small animals?

Christopher

 

[reefinder]

the blame is in the consumer, supply and demand. stores will supply fish and coral stolen form the ocean because we reefers are greedy and want to fill our tanks with exotic goods. I am to blame as well as everyone else. the truth in the matter is i can admit my greed and hope i will not be judged to harshly when it is all over.

 

[Chris27]

Give up with that store and take a trip on over to Reef Chief - he runs copper in the fish tanks on the left side of the store. The only fish that don't get copper are the smaller guys like clowns, small wrasses and gobies that need to have sand. His mortality rates are far less then most of the other guys in the area.

FWIW, we are extremely lucky to live in the area that we do. We have a handful of top-notch stores in the area on both sides of the tunnel.....if we shop at the good ones, the others will go back to selling dog food and hamsters or start taking better care of the livestock they bring in.

 

[krzyphsygy]

I worked for one of the large pet store giants and felt helpless taking care of the tanks there. With all my knowledge and as large and expensive of the system they had ($80,000-100,000) I could really do nothing. So many fish comming in and leaving, so much inexperience by the care takers, dead fish not being removed and dozens of them, system maintanence problems that would take weeks to fix. Complete shut downs needed and rebuilds which would cost the company thousands easily.
Me, I worked on the systems for days on end. But my boss would only allow me to do so much. I was really sad watching it. I had to throw away over 50 dead fish a day on some days and thats the real truth.
The thing is when it comes to the really large corporate pet stores, its not that they don't care. The problem is they have way to much stuff going on in terms of a retail business, that they can not properly care for the animals. They do have many programs in place to care for them, but lack of execution in the process of these programs is what causes these problems.

The best place to buy fish in my opinion is the local stores that just take care of fish and corals. Because they are not merchandising, and building endcaps, and planograms, and trying to hit the comp number.

 

[alonglongtime]

Years ago I quit purchasing from major chains. I have always enjoyed the small "mom and pop" shops where the owners were the employees. As a rule, I have found them to be more ethical in their treatment of the livestock on hand. As stated above, the larger chains have too much going on to offer the necessary attention. The sad thing is this, the chains move into an area and lower their prices to the point that they often drive the smaller stores out of business. Who is to blame? I won't go there. We do have an expensive hobby and there are areas where we can save a buck, but buying from the big chains is usually a disaster for many of us. I am not saying there are no exceptions to this rule, but I haven't found any.

 

[Orcrone]

Many good points here. I understand the logistics of a large store and the impossibility for even a small store to quarantine livestock. It just angers me to see fish (or any animal) suffering and certainly about to die because of the logistics/cost of treating them. If they don't have the ability to treat diseased fish they shouldn't be selling them. I've seen a reputable LFS have the lights off on a quarter of the tanks because they were treating a disease and the fish were not for sale. They weren't just letting them die.

BTW, I generally support my LFS for supplies and certainly livestock. But sometimes I'll go to these larger stores because I need a supply that's not at my LFS.

 

[jeff@zina.com]

I was back in there this weekend.

I think you may have described the actual problem here. Stop going back. You won't be disturbed by the store's maintenance and they won't be excited to see yet another customer.

Jeff