Kent Marine Tech M Raising Specific Gravity

[Xxero]

* Earlier, I combined my reef salt mix with 15 gallons of RO/DI water. The specific gravity read 1.024.
* After raising the Magnesium level of this new saltwater mixture with Kent Marine Tech M, the specific gravity jumped up to 1.033.
* I diluted the saltwater mixture with RO/DI to lower the specific gravity back down to 1.025.
* It is now 10 hours later, and I just measured the specific gravity of the saltwater mixture. It has held at 1.025.

Now my question: Is this new batch of saltwater safe to add to my system now that it has been diluted?

ThanX! :bigeyes:

 

[Snarkys]

Might want to check the calcium and alkalinity levels now. Most people would consider it safe if they are inline.

Thing about raising magnesium levels in a salt mix is it often takes a lot and the net result is the salinity rises. You can then dilute it but remember that you are essentially now lowering every single perimeter in the water when you do that. You are best off finding a salt mix that already has the magnesium levels you desire.

It is more common and less of an issue when adjusting calcium and alkalinity levels because it takes significantly less in most cases and typically has a minimal impact on salinity.

 

[Xxero]

Hey, thanks Ryan! Love your products and the web-site! :bigeyes:

Might want to check the calcium and alkalinity levels now. Most people would consider it safe if they are inline.

The Calcium is a little on the low side: 320ppm. The Alkalinity reads at 8 dkh. I think that I will just go ahead and perform the partial water change, and then adjust the system parameters from there.

You are best off finding a salt mix that already has the magnesium levels you desire.

Ugh. I have been experimenting with different salt mixes lately specifically for this reason. I understand that there are some salt mixes that you can adjust to your specific needs, but I'm talking about the average out-of-box mixes that are out there.

It is more common and less of an issue when adjusting calcium and alkalinity levels because it takes significantly less in most cases and typically has a minimal impact on salinity.

I have been dosing with Kent Marine Tech M to elevate my Magnesium levels lately in hopes of eradicating Bryopsis. As soon as this does or does not work, I will go back to dosing Magnesium with a more concentrated form.

Thanks again! :thumbsup:

 

[bertoni]

What was the magnesium level in the new water after supplementation? I would ditch the water at this point. Although the SG is okay, the ionic balance should be very far off if the SG measurements were correct.

 

[Xxero]

This is something that I am not understanding.

Say that I dose 64 oz. of Kent Tech M into my system throughout the course of 5 days. My system's water reads 1.026 at the start of those 5 days, but by day 5, my system's specific gravity now reads 1.030.

Do I add RO/DI to the system over a few days to bring the specific gravity back down to 1.026, or will that upset the ionic balance of my entire system? Do I leave the water at 1.030 specific gravity?

Or is the answer don't dose Kent Marine Tech M to elevate your Magnesium because it will increase your specific gravity over time and you can't dilute it without causing issues?

 

[Xxero]

The Magnesium in the newly mixed water after supplementation was 1800.

And I already performed the water change using that water, so now I'm concerned that I just murphy'd things up.

 

[2_zoa]

Your boosting mag levels to combat bryopsis right?

 

[Xxero]

Making the attempt, yes. Just a few small patches of it right now, but I'm trying to get on top of it.

I'm thinking that until I can find a salt mix that gives higher Magnesium content, I need to dose my new saltwater with a more concentrated Magnesium product. Then maybe supplemental dose with Kent Tech M from there to maintain the high level.

Right now though, do you think that things are going to be okay having already used that earlier batch of water? It's currently lights out time, but everything seemed okay earlier.

Thanks.

 

[CStrickland]

Not to get too far off track, but I'm curious. I thought sg was just an easy way to check that enough salt mix was present. Like, we know how heavy the water is when it starts pure water and has enough salt mix added to reach the correct weight. So when we start pure and add enough to reach that weight, then everything is balanced because the salt mix is properly proportioned for elements and ions and stuff.

Does sg affect other functions in the tank? Like, if you made water that was really dense, but didn't have too much salt mix, would that kind of increas the water pressure and stress biological symptoms in fish or coral?

When I hear about people screwing up and getting sg too high I always assumed the water was just too salty. But maybe when it's thicker it's hard on kidneys and gills and stuff too?


PS people often report that it's not the mg itself. Rather something else in Kent kills the bryopsis. They say it must be that brand. The mg level is working as a proxy for the measure of whatever contaminant bryopsis cannot tolerate.i wonder how much diff it makes that people start with varying levels of mag using diff salts.

 

[Xxero]

When I hear about people screwing up and getting sg too high I always assumed the water was just too salty.

Me too. Salinity is the measure of salt in water, but I always use the specific gravity measurement when I talk about salt content. I guess that I should stop doing this.

PS people often report that it's not the mg itself. Rather something else in Kent kills the bryopsis. They say it must be that brand. The mg level is working as a proxy for the measure of whatever contaminant bryopsis cannot tolerate.i wonder how much diff it makes that people start with varying levels of mag using diff salts.

I read the same, in regards to the actual Kent product being the means to combat Bryopsis and not necessarily a high Magnesium level. I thought that I would try this method first before I go a different route. I hear that Kent Tech M is hit or miss, but I figured I would give it a try.

 

[Xxero]

So everything seems okay today, and I just ran the following tests:

SG = 1.025
pH = 8.2
Ca = 370
Alk = 8

But Magnesium is down to 1600, which I do not understand. Both my display and the new batch of saltwater read 1800 yesterday???

Anyway, all inhabitants are well (including the snails) so I guess no harm done. I think that I'm going to raise the Mg back up using Red Sea Reef Foundation C (Mg supplement), and then dose with Kent Tech M from there.

 

[bertoni]

Did you dilute the new batch of saltwater before doing a water change?

Adding magnesium will raise the salinity, but the change you reported is far too large for a reasonable dose of magnesium, so that sounds more like a measurement problem. I'm not sure what's happening for sure, though. Ocean water contains about 30,000 ppm sodium and chlorine, so it'd take a lot of magnesium supplement to make much of a change in the SG.

 

[Snarkys]

How people use magnesium to get rid off Bryopsis seems to be all over the board. Some people raise it to 1600 others to 2000. Either way it's a lot of salt. In a 100 gallon tank going from 1300 to 2000 is like 11 cups of magnesium chloride salt or the equivalent of dissolved salt in solution with Tech M. Adding that much is going to raise the salinity quite a bit.

I have witnessed, done it myself and talked to people who have raised their magnesium to kill Bryopsis and I wish I could tell you why but it works awesome in like 30% of the cases where it melts away never to be seen again. Other times no impact at all. Sometimes it happens at higher levels sometimes lower. Ill also note that I have seen regular old magnesium chloride work/not work just as often as tech M so i guess I don't feel like it is worth the extra money myself.

Either way there seems to be two major approaches to this. One where you raise the magnesium level of the tank with the additive of your choice which in turn also raises the chloride level and salinity but doesn't impact other permitters significantly. Other method you raise the magnesium but adjust the salinity back down through dilution or other methods. It is good that the salinity is down but through dilution basically every single perimeter in the tank other than magnesium is now also low to very low.

I think there is room for debate on which is a better solution but I personally prefer to have the higher salinity from elevated magnesium and chloride levels and all of the other permitters stable. I am sure some reefers might feel differently.

On a side note I have talked to some additive manufactures that strongly believe it has nothing to do with the magnesium killing the Bryopsis at all and it is the higher chloride levels or even potentially salinity thats doing it. Magnesium chloride just happens be one of the easy ways to raise chloride and salinity and the impacts on magnesium are less harmful than using something like calcium chloride where the calcium levels would cause serious health or precipitation issues. I have personally always wanted to try a suitable source of sodium chloride to test that theory but never got around to it.

A lot of people find more luck removing as much as possible by hand, draining the tank down with a huge water change and spraying the small patches with hydrogen peroxide. Effect is pretty immediate and I have personally never seen a negative impact to a tank as long as you don't get it directly on corals or other livestock.

 

[bertoni]

Allegedly, Kent has found a compound that's a trace contaminant in some of their supplies that kills Bryopsis. I haven't tracked down this report to a source, but it seems reasonable to me. That was the suspicion for a long time.

 

[Snarkys]

Allegedly, Kent has found a compound that's a trace contaminant in some of their supplies that kills Bryopsis. I haven't tracked down this report to a source, but it seems reasonable to me. That was the suspicion for a long time.

That may very well be the case and I do remember that being the generally floated theory when everyone was trying different magnesium's and having different levels of success. I guess I recall an unknown contaminant was really just a community guess and I think it likely stuck because no one came up with anything else plausible or had repeatable success exploring.

I can only throw my own 2 cents in and say I have seen a handful of different magnesium chlorides work varying from common mined sources in the US to evaporated dead sea salts which should have very different impurities as well as synthetic sources which should have virtually no impurities as compared to the others. I have also seen all of these not work. It is kind of a mystery.

If Kent did find an element that completely melts down Bryopsis in days to weeks and seemingly doesn't have a negative effect on anything else in the tank what huge miss in not bottling it because I am sure many people would pay a fortune for it.

Guess I still look at this as one of those unsolved mysteries. I think it would be fun to explore some of these concepts in a semi controlled environment as well as explore the theory that it might be the salinity or chloride as the real solution behind what initially appears to be magnesium.

 

[Xxero]

How people use magnesium to get rid off Bryopsis seems to be all over the board. Some people raise it to 1600 others to 2000. Either way it's a lot of salt. In a 100 gallon tank going from 1300 to 2000 is like 11 cups of magnesium chloride salt or the equivalent of dissolved salt in solution with Tech M. Adding that much is going to raise the salinity quite a bit.

This. ^

The problem that I am having is that I have my system's Magnesium at 1800 right now trying to stave off this Bryopsis. But when I mixed this last batch of new saltwater, out of box, the Magnesium was 960! I had to add 7 cups of Kent Marine Tech M to that new water to raise the Mg up to 1800. If I don't match up the Magnesium levels of the new saltwater to my system's current water, then it will drop my system's Magnesium levels waaay back down.

7 cups is a lot and that is what raised the specific gravity so much. So I diluted the new batch with RO/DI to lower the SG, thus diluting everything in the mix apparently. This was my concern about using the water because the other trace elements in the salt mix would have been watered down.

I'm trying to find a salt mix brand that delivers Magnesium in at least the 1300 range, out of box, but I am not having any luck. They all advertise these numbers, but testing proves otherwise so far. Instant Ocean Reef Crystals delivered in the 1000 range and Seachem's Reef Salt is mixing at around 1000 as well. Having to maintain such a high Mg level for Bryopsis is a real pain in the arse when you're using such low producing salt mix.

Thank you guys for all of the input. Very educational! :bigeyes:

 

[bertoni]

If Kent did find an element that completely melts down Bryopsis in days to weeks and seemingly doesn't have a negative effect on anything else in the tank what huge miss in not bottling it because I am sure many people would pay a fortune for it.

I think the issue there is that it'd require testing to certify the chemical for use in the United States, at least, and given that there won't be a patent, there's not much they could do to recoup the costs.

 

[Snarkys]

You are right, I forgot how hard it is sell a product which directly claims to kill algae in the US. Same reason chemiclean and similar products claim to remove "red stains" rather than kill cyano. You would think Kent could figure out something similar. If they really have he silver bullet it would be one of thier best selling products. That said I'm still kind of skeptical. Hard to imagine what impurity is found in all these magnesium sources.

 

[FishN00b83]

IME, the BRS 2 part Mg wiped out my bryopsis pretty quickly. I raised it to 1700 in one shot and kept it there for like 3 weeks. I then dropped it down to 1600 and it never came back again.

 

[BlackTip]

I am on the second treatment of Bryopsis.

First, I raised Mag to 1800 for 4 weeks. Bryopsis melted away, but they came back two month later.

Second, I raised Mag to 1800 for 10 weeks, and I am going to continue keeping it high for another 2-4 weeks (until I ran out of 5 gallon magnesium I bought).

I keep my tank at 1.026. When I do water change, I replace with water that is 1.022. After the water change, I test the tank for Mag, and I dose to bring it back to 1800.

I do about 13% water change every two weeks.

I hope that help,