Kole tang in QT - dos and don'ts

[JCnflies]

I'm looking to pick up a Kole Tang. I hear that all tangs should be quarantined. I have a 50 gallon QT that (I'll confirm tonight) is cycled and has live sand and LR.

Now I know Kole Tangs are supposed to love to eat algae but there is none to speak of in the QT and it does not have a skimmer.

(1) Do you think the Kole will be OK?
(2) Will feeding him a healthy amount of vegie foods be fine in place of algae?

Thx.

 

[qy7400]

I'm not a big fan of LR and LS in a QT, if you have to medicate or run hypo the rock and sand will die. The best bet is cycled water from the display. If you can replace the LR with 3" and 4" PVC fittings, they should provide ample hiding spots. As for the food question; yes veggie foods and nori will be fine.

 

[aaron23]

hyposalinity for 4 weeks would be your best bet to kill the ich...like qy7400 said all of your living creatures in the tank will have died through the process.

 

[JCnflies]

Thx. If he has a disease, I have a 20 gallon that I can move him in. What would you try to have the salinity set at? Thx.

 

[qy7400]

If it's just a QT tank to observe keep it the same as the main. If he gets ich you'll want to drop the SG to 1.009 over 2 days and keep it there from at least 30 days.

 

[JCnflies]

Thx. My main is at .023 and the QT is at .019. Should I throw a little xtra salt in and let it sit in until I get the fish? Or is .018 fine? Thx.

 

[jnfallon]

its important to not shock the fish with a sudden change in salinity/ph.

If you drip acclimate, it will handle more of a change, but try to make it near to where its coming from.

no need to do hyposalinity until you see ich, some (including me) feed garlic as a preventative. No idea if it really works.

Strong evidence that ich is stress induced, so I think lr in a quarantine tank is ok, since it provides some sense of security to the fish.

I love my kole tang. good luck,

 

[DgenR8]

ICH probably would not have been mentioned if you hadn't said Tang.
ICH is a big problem, especially with Tangs, as they seem to be more likely to "get" it than almost any other fish. A QT is important, no fish should ever get into your display tank without going through QT first.

I have to tell you that I think you're really trying to move faster than you should. Success in this hobby comes from patience, and from reading your posts, you're a little lacking in the patience department.
At least take the time to really read through <a href="http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.htm" target="_blank">Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion
of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available</a> before you go out and buy the fish. Les will hold him for you. At least that way you'll have a solid understanding of where ICH comes from, and proven methods of dealing with it.

 

[JCnflies]

Larry thanks for the advice and article link. I am a little confused when you mention moving too fast.............. here's why:

It sure seems, with the tank running nearly a month and ammonia, nitrite at 0 and nitrate as low as can be registered on the test kit, that the tank is cycled. Others have advised me to add a fish at first, then add another a week or two later and then another two weeks after that. I thought that was "slow."

Now I am figuring that if I put the Kole in QT for a month, then when I introduce him to the main tank in 30 days or so, I still won't be stressing the bioload; in fact, what really confuses me is what one local store (not Les) said, "Once you have your tank cycled you can add a bunch of fish." I was very surprised to hear this and even said just like freshwater? He said yes.

One of the other fish I want to get (the last fish) is an angel fish - probably a coral beauty. But I know they are supposed to need a very mature tank. I thought I would get him at 5 months so I can put him in the tank at 6 months.

Combining those two thoughts, I thought it would actually be an advantage to get the Kole Tang now. The reason I say that is that they feed off algae and I have plenty (but it is not blown out at least yet) in my tank. So between believing the tank is cycled and believing exactly what this fish needs to have a constant food supply available to him all over the place, I actually thought now was a good time to get the Kole, throw it in QT for the month and then put him the tank.

Now as far as corals go, from the research I have done, it seems most of those need a much more mature tank for their requirements to be met. It looks to me like I will have to add those very slowly until such time as t he tank is pretty mature - some types like acropora I am told need at least a year old tank until you can even consider getting them. I have thougt about picking up a sun coral in a few eeks because (I heard) it doesn't need as old a tank.

I am not trying to be a wise guy, but I am trying to temper enthusiasm with sound practice. I'm also one of the guys who can be a pain in the butt because I always have to know why so I learn. So that's how my rookie mind is thinking. I'm pretty sure that I'm missing something, but I'm really not sure what. Where is my confusion? Also, would it make any sense to just keep the Kole Tang a little longer in QT if I have to? One of my concerns is that some of the sw fish can go a long time without being available and others "the books" say to add last - like the angelfish. This hobby has lots of permutations

 

[Spracklcat]

JC, you're right, everyone does seem to have a different opinion of things, but Larry makes a bunch of very good points. Don't take people's critique of your methods as criticism; everyone here is real hepful and are only trying to save you some grief by helping you learn from our mistakes.

A few things--in your QT, absolutely without question remove the LR and sand. It defeats the purpose of a QT tank altogether. The idea is to keep the fish in a place which is easily cleaned, so that if there is any parasite/pathogen, before you put another fish in there you can sterilize it (bleach and a good rinse).

"Well, if the fish looks healthy for the duration of QT, then everything's ok and there are no parasites/diseases, right?"

Nope--and Ich is a perfect example. Fish can carry the parasite without showing any symptoms. If your fish has ICh and you put it in your QT and it drops some parasites that populate your rock, >>even if you can't see them <<, the next fish is going to become a carrier too. For security of the fish, PVC works more than fine, and no substrate is necessary at all.

For a first coral I'd go with something hardy like a Kenya Tree or Capnella, or a Sarcophyton ("leather coral"). Maybe some of those larger polyps--the Palythoa that everyone in the club has tons of. Or Xenia.

Sun corals might do ok, but keep in mind that they need to be fed daily, and that feeding them meaty foods is going to add a big bioload to your tank whcih it may not be ready to handle yet. Alternately, some people have luck taking them out of the tank and feeding them in a small container every day, but for me that seems stressful--I like to feed mine in the tank. I've never heard of them as a first coral though--maybe the reason people say they are easier is that they don't require light.

Good luck, keep asking questions, talk to as many people as you can, READ a lot, and don't forget meetings are a good way to put faces to names and learn some more.

Welcome!

Christine

 

[DgenR8]

JC,
Never let anyone discourage you from asking questions. The more questions you get the answers to, the better your tank will be in the end.
That said, it could be my perception (because you have asked a lot of questions) that you are really moving fast here. I haven't gone back to see exactly when you started your tank, but I do know that you have a new tank. I'm thinking that your tank is a little too new for what you have added, and are planning. I also believe that your qt is newer than your tank, this just isn't an ideal approach, especially when you're planning a fish that is notoriously susceptible to ICH.
I don't want to discourage you, I am not trying to talk you out of a Kole, I think it's a very good choice. From reading your posts, I just get the feeling that you're putting the cart in front of the horse.
In the end, advice is free, and what you do with it is totally up to you

 

[JCnflies]

THx Larry, I just don't want to annoy folks. The guy who taught me about cichlids, Les, used to put me on a 3 question rule

I think you are right on when yuo mentioned me putting the cart before the horse with the QT. I had bought 3 flasher wrasses a while back figuring that, since I expected my QT to be cycled, I could put the wrasses in there for amonth - that would leave only 3 small fish totalling 7 - 8 inches in my 75, so I tought the biolaod would be OK (plus I checked hte parametrs every day or two and all were perfect.) Thinking that the wrasses would be in the QT for amonth, I was very comfortable with then adding them to the main tank 4 weeks later and everything would be OK. Then I completely blew it - big time!

I had a huge brain cramp and never tested the QT's parameters. I acclimated the wrasses for about 2.5 hours or so when I finally released them in to the QT. I should say two of them looked so so in the bags when I got them but one looked really healthy. When I released the wrasses in the QT, they sunk right to the bottom and in minutes were blotchy and on there sides. The temp was good and salinity, which I had tested, was about 1.018, so I thought that was fine. To get a good view of the one wrasses I could not find, I moved the one piece of LR in the tank and a bunch of crud moved out from under it. I said to myself, "you idiot!" The salinity (which had been down to about 1.009 before I added salt to the QT) must have killed stuff in t he LR and now, despite adding live sand, a piece of LR and a sponge filter I had sitting in the refugium of the main tank, I had an ammonia spike and now the wrasses were dying in the QT.

I had to make a decision quick ... let them die or quick reacclimate them to the main tank and let them go in th ere. Well, I chose option 2 and, though I was really scared for a day (until I saw two swimming) and another day (till I saw all three swimming) and a third )till I saw all eating voraciously), I had this awful feeling in the pit of my gut that I had ruined all I had worked for! NoW i have had them in the main tank for about 9 days with no sign of disease (thank God) and t hey are well acclimated and really quite beautiful and fun to watch. But the fear I stomached for about 4 or 5 days disturbed me a lot. The really weird thing is I tested my QT for ammonia and it was fine. I guess I overreacted to the wrasse's palor when I first released them.... they probably would have been fine.

I am smart enough to know that Larry is right and I have been lucky. I look at my tank and see the coralline algae coming on strong and the healthy fish and know that I want to add at a comfortable pace but not in such a way that what is going so well is threatened.............

I got a little exvited when I heard that a local place had a pair of Kole Tnags, but when I looked at them I thuoght they looked like they were having problems, so I passed on them. Another bunch will be coming in a week (to another place) and, if they look good, I'll go the QT route for a month before adding them to the main tank. I should mention, tpoo, that i am treating the 50 gal QT has more of a storage tank to monitor the new fish. If they are sick, I will put the fishin to a 20 gallon that is bare, save PVC.

I have a quick question, though...... since the QT will have nothing to do for 2 or 3 months between when I remove the Kole Tang, is it possible to grow some brine shrimp in the 50 galklon for a supply of food for the main tank 9assuming there is no disdease in the QT.? I used to hatch tons of live baby brine for the cichlid fry I raised.

Christine - thanks for your help, too. I think I rememkber larry from the meeting I attended, but I am not sure I remember you. I hope to meet and thank you for your advice at the next meeting I have a question for you, if that's OK.........

I was thining that a bare bottom tank with just acouple of pieces of PVC would actually add to the stress level of a fish in quarantine and actually make it more susceptible to disease. I know you recommended removing the live sand (there's not much, about 1/2 inch primarliy used to just to cover the bottom and help t he fish feel more at ease) if I also have the 20 gallon should I have to treat anything? I thought I read in the article Larry referenced that even if the fish is sick, if I leave the QT without a fish for longer than the life cycle of hte ich allows, the ich would no longer be alive...........

Thx again for everyone's help.

 

[Spracklcat]

JC--

First off you have to give us a name so we stop calling you this inappropriately (just read your sig)

I am the first one to get all squishy and worry about fishes feelings...and I tell you, get everything out of your QT except plastic and glass. the fish will weather the psychological trauma just fine with no ill effects. If it makes you feel better get some plastic plants and put them in, as long as you clean them after each use.

You may have a point about leaving the tank fallow for more than the life cycle of the ich parasite--but isn't it easier to just clean the tank and refill it when you need it? And also, that doesn't do anything for any other bacteria/parasites that a fish/invert may have brought in.

For the brine shrimp, you could grow them out in the 50g, but my impression is that brine is the "junk food of the sea"--there are better nutritive things out there, like mysid shrimp. Baby brine (1 day old) is better, and you can grow more than enough of that in an empty 2 liter soda bottle with an airstone.

Patience is the hardest thing to have, especially when you've got a beautiful fish sitting in a QT tank and you want to add it right away...but it only takes one time of adding a fish/coral and having it spread something nasty to the critters you've had for years.

See you soon...

 

[DgenR8]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8117318#post8117318 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Spracklcat


Patience is the hardest thing to have, especially when you've got a beautiful fish sitting in a QT tank and you want to add it right away...but it only takes one time of adding a fish/coral and having it spread something nasty to the critters you've had for years.

See you soon...

I could never have said it so perfectly :thumbsup:

 

[JCnflies]

Thx again, and I'll take your advice n the sand and LR Now that I am back to work (I teach math and coach) and now tha the sw flyfishing seasopn is upon us, patience is easy. patience was harder when I was looking at one fish in a 75 gallon tank .....

And the name is Bob, thx

Time to feed the fish (twice a day with a smidgeon of NLS added at some other time. Usually mysis or Hikari "megamarine" a mix of plankton, clam, etc. I am trying some bloodworm, too. I add a bit of brine every couple of days. I am going to do some lbbs tomorrow................